#1298 Rachel Steele: Humanizing Sex Workers

00:00 Ricardo Lopes: Hello everyone. Welcome to a new episode of The Dissenter. I'm your host, as always, Ricard Lops, and today I'm joined by Rachel Stee. She's a self-made porn creator, producer, director, CEO of her own production company called Red Mill Productions. And this is again an interview part of my humanizing sex workers series, and today we're going to talk about Rachel's porn career, people's common misconceptions about the porn industry and its performers, and the topic of porn inflation, which was recently featured on Playboy. So Rachel, welcome to the show. It's an honor to everyone.

00:41 Rachel Steele: Thank you, Ricardo. It's an honor to be here. I'm excited to humanize sex workers again today. Sounds good. Yeah, it's all.

00:51 Ricardo Lopes: Yeah, it's one of my favorite topics. So it's a good one, yeah, so let me start by asking you this because you have had a kind of unorthodox porn career, right? I mean, you've not been one of those performers who's worked that much for porn companies who have a contract. With a porn company or anything like that. So, uh, but tell us first, what really got you into pornography? I mean, was it, um, uh, things related to sex? Were they always something that interested you or, uh, was it something that just you developed at some point?

01:33 Rachel Steele: Yeah, well, it was, uh, actually by accident that I, uh, found this industry and entered the industry. Um, I was, uh, at the time with a partner, uh, and he took some pictures of me. We were having cocktails by the pool, having a fun summer day, just having drinks and being silly, just the two of us, and Um, I started posing and just being funny, and he was taking pictures, and then he developed the pictures and said, you know, these look really good, and I follow some, uh, older woman, sort of, uh, this was before MILF was a thing. The word mil. Oh,

02:15 Ricardo Lopes: so, so, so it's even, it was even a bit before the MILF category became a thing, was that?

02:23 Rachel Steele: Yes, it was like in 2005 or 2006, so. Um, HE, he said, with your permission, I'd like to upload these pictures to a website, like a hotwife website. They're having a contest right now, and if you win the contest by these pictures, you could win a cash prize. So of course I agreed there was no nudity, uh, just sexy. Pool pictures. Uh, HE sent them in, and I won, uh, first place. So then it was quite a chunk of money at that time. This was 25 years ago or something. So, it was like $600 and I was like, wow, how can I do that again? Let's do it again. And he was like, well, you know, you can't just do that. So I just went on, uh, I went online and went down a rabbit hole and started going to these adult websites. I wasn't much of a porn consumer at all at that time, very vanilla, uh, just a house vanilla housewife, and, uh, just living my life, and I owned a hair salon. And I was just doing normal things, and, uh, I didn't know much about sex work or porn. Uh, AND then I stumbled into all of this, and I started webcamming on the side because I was getting ready to close my hair salon, and I was really, like, wondering what am I going to do next. I've been doing, um, the hair salon for the last 10 or 14 years. Uh, And I didn't have any formal education, so I was thinking, you know, what am I going to do for work next? So this came at the most opportune time, and then I started, I just fast forward, I just went right into webcamming, and then I realized from all the customers that I was, uh, interacting with on a daily basis, all these fetishes and kinks, and Uh, sexual requests and desires that I've never heard of before, I didn't know anything about, but as a customer service person just coming out of a hair salon business, I was like, sure, I can do that. Yes, we can do that, you know, and then before you know it, I was shooting for producers in Tampa. I was living in Tampa at the time. I started shooting with, uh, fetish producers there, built myself up a little bit of a reputation, a name, Rachel Steele. Uh, THEN I quickly, entrepreneur mind that I have, said, I can do this myself. I don't want to be a model. I wanna be the owner. I wanna be the creator, the one that's, uh, that owns the content, and then that's how it all, that's how my Red Mill Productions began.

04:56 Ricardo Lopes: Uh, SO in terms of your porn career, you never really worked much for other people, or, or did you?

05:04 Rachel Steele: Correct, um, I worked for many amateur, um, sites, the fetish, uh, side of porn, but mainstream, I, I didn't dabble in at all. I, I, I didn't care for the style. Um, I'm more of an erotic, sensual, seductress kind of performer. I like things to slowly unfold, really bring up the, the, get things simmering, and then a boil, and then, you know, the finale. I don't want to just open the door and go, oh, you're the plumber. Come and fix my pipes. You know what I mean? I want it to, to have a storyline. So I, mainstream porn was just very quick and very raw and gonzo, and it wasn't my style. I didn't feel comfortable with that kind of, um, content, so I just decided to stay away from mainstream and just really focus on producing my own content, which was also unheard of 20 years ago. PEOPLE didn't, we, there was no social media, no Instagram, nothing. So, this mindset that I had was, was what's happening today with, uh, original content creators. So, I, I really did get, get a good jump, uh, ahead of the game by, by thinking that way of, I want to do this on my own. I want to be the boss. I want to own the, the content and everything about it, and have my name stamped on it. Not modeling for other companies where they're going to then market that product and be able to sell it over and over and over, and I get paid one time. So it's just a pretty easy math equation.

06:42 Ricardo Lopes: Yeah, you've definitely had a very unique kind of porn career. I mean, uh, did, did you grow up quickly on the internet? I mean, how fast did it happen? And do you think that at least part of it, part of your success has been due to the fact that you sort of attend to those more kind of fetish, kink, kind of niche things in porn?

07:10 Rachel Steele: Yeah, um, I started really producing in about 2006, and, um, in about 2007 or 2008, uh, a fan reached out to me and asked me if I would consider doing, um, a custom video where it was mother-son. And I had never thought about this before. I was just doing MILF, older woman, younger man. Scenarios, um, and I decided, I, I, you know, spoke to my partner about it, and he was like, no, don't do that, you can't do that. Don't do that. That's, oh, I'm like, this is fantasy. He's not my son. He's just a guy that I'm hiring. Come on, this is like the movies, like you watch movies, you know, Char, um. Those celebrities that play murderers aren't really murderers in their real life, so this is fantasy roleplay. So I agreed to do it. I did that film, and it went crazy. It went viral and it shot me up to Number 1 on the charts, uh, on a clip site called Clips for Sale. And then my studio was at #1, and I stayed at number 1 for almost 10 years after that. So, it really, uh, shot me up to the top, and then I was known as the taboo MILF. And now, today, everything is step according to the, the law. We have to follow the guidelines, and we have to use the word stepmother now. We can't do mom, son. So, um, you know. The, the, the whole outlook has changed, but that's what really shot me up to the top and kept me there, and made me kind of a trailblazer for, for this whole genre.

08:55 Ricardo Lopes: Yeah, it's interesting because I've interviewed people who are really, I mean, some of them are legends of the industry, people like Nina Hartley, Brittany Andrews, Rachel Devine, and it's interesting because some of them at least were already shooting in the 80s, 90s, so they went through. That period in the porn industry where you still had VHS and then DVD, but when you went through the industry, actually it was already around that period of time where porn on the internet was already or starting to bloom,

09:32 Rachel Steele: right? Yes, mhm.

09:34 Ricardo Lopes: Yeah, so, so you basically also rode that wave of porn on the internet, and then, I mean, how do you look back in terms of how your porn career on the internet has looked over time because of course there were those early days in the 2000s, but then I mean even the different porn companies started moving. More and more into the internet and they no longer even, I mean, VHS, no, no one sells VHS nowadays, but even DVDs are more, more and more rare nowadays. But with the introduction of even platforms like OnlyFans and other websites like that, how have you seen the industry on the internet changing over time?

10:27 Rachel Steele: Yeah, well, there's definitely more opportunity, um, as a producer, a CEO of a production company, and a performer, there's definitely more opportunity, um, because there's so many platforms where you can sell your product, um, so that's, you know, that's a positive thing, um. And, but at the same time, there's a lot of competition, or saturation, more so than competition, because we all kind of can mirror each other and promote each other, uh, and, but, um, you know, there's a lot of saturation, so it, it's And OnlyFans is, is a wonderful opportunity as well. However, it's can be exhausting. It can take up your full day. You could literally be hunched over a phone chatting all day long, just on OnlyFans. What about all the other Administrative work that needs to be done. So there's a lot on creators right now because there's so much. You've got Instagram, you've got all the social media channels. There's so much dumped on new creators or creators that are just trying to keep their head above water. Uh, AND not disappear online. So the pressure, uh, the algorithms of the pressure of the, of all of that getting shut down on social media, uh, worrying about all of those sorts of things happening can affect your income. Uh, WE have banking issues now. I don't know if you heard about Cherie Deville. Uh, Bank of America just shut her accounts and they're holding her money. Uh, IT'S insane like what's happening. So there's a lot of good, but then there's a lot, uh, on the other side that we're dealing with as well. So I'm just really grateful that I started 20 years ago. I skyrocketed. I continued to produce for about 15 years, nonstop every single day, 5 days a week, 3 shoots a day for 15 years. So I have the huge library, 4 or 5000 videos are all on, all on my website, and I'm continuing shooting all the time. LA, Las Vegas, new talent, mainstream talent. Um, SO I'm lucky where I've got this library, and I'm able to, I have content. I don't have to be a slave to the machine, so to speak.

12:48 Ricardo Lopes: Yeah, right, I mean, maybe later if we have time we might get into some of those issues in terms of how in the US particularly, but maybe also other countries, very unfortunately sex workers have been targeted for the past few years on the internet and also w he re uh, but I would like to ask you, what would you say are the main differences or what do you find to be the main differences between being a content creator slash performer, a producer, and a director because you have fulfilled all those roles.

13:23 Rachel Steele: Yeah. Well, currently, I am all of those roles on set. So, um, I've, I've really only stepped out maybe a handful of times and just directed behind the camera with other people. Um, I'm slowly introducing more of those scenes because eventually, um, You know, 5, 10 years from now, I might not want to be in front of the camera, um, but I'll still be producing Red Mill Productions as an empire. It's not gonna just stop. Uh, IT'S gonna continue. I'll have a team in place that'll produce and direct and film and do everything. So, it'll always be producing porn, um. But, you know, right now it it's, it's tricky to do all of that when you're in front of the camera as well, but that's what I've been doing for so many, for two decades. So I've, I've kind of, you know, blended it all together into one, little thing that I, I'm, I'm used to doing this, uh, this way, so I don't really separate being a performer, uh, from a director cause I'm As soon as people walk in the room, I'm like, OK, this is what's gonna go down. You are my stepson, you are the next door neighbor, and, you know, so I'm telling the story, writing the story, directing it, producing it, and acting in it.

14:50 Ricardo Lopes: I mean, it's interesting that you fulfill all those roles. Uh, WHAT perspective uh does that give you in terms of pornography? Do you look at it as a form of art?

15:01 Rachel Steele: Mhm. Yes, I do very much so. Um, I don't even like to use the word, I'm a porn star, or I film pornography. I'm a film producer, and I'm an actress, and that's how I look at it, because I have to play, uh, I have the opportunity to play so many different roles, um, whether they are demure and innocent, or Pervy and aggressive, or, you know, I've just so many different roles. I, I like to play. I do Wonder Woman. I do fetish. I'm a dominatrix, so I go deep on psychology and, uh, what people's kinks and fetishes are. I have private sessions with individuals, um, that gets, it can get really intense psychologically. Um. So it's absolutely so much more. So, one woman said to me the other day, she said, well, You're lucky because you shoot porn and you like having sex, and she just left it at that. And I was like, wow, do you think that because I shoot porn is the way you put it, it's just because I like to have sex, that's why I shoot porn, like, It's, you know, that's just not the case. Of course, I love sex and enjoy sex, but I'm also producing film. This is storylines, taboo fantasies, fantasy roleplay situations. So we're acting just like on TV in the movies. All these movies we watch are made up storylines, uh, with people acting. Um, IT'S the same thing in Shooting, uh, porn, it's, it's film production from, from my, my, my, uh, production company is that way anyway. There's a beginning, a middle, and an end. There's characters, there's role, role playing, there's different, uh, costuming, you know, changes, um. So, it's definitely an art. You're always thinking about camera angles and lighting, uh, people's, um, how they're acting, or if they're supposed to be happy and excited, are they really portraying that? So you do several takes over and over. Let's try that again this time with a little more excitement. So, If, if someone were to just come with me for a week or so and follow me from shoot to shoot to shoot, they'd see all, all that goes into it. It's just so much more than popping on a push-up bra and having sex with some hot young guy. It's just way beyond that.

17:38 Ricardo Lopes: Yeah, how much prep goes into it, uh, actually? I mean, uh, I'm not even talking about, uh, during the shooting itself, but before the shooting, how much prep time does it take?

17:52 Rachel Steele: Yeah, before the shooting, uh, so for me, I live in San Diego and I shoot in LA. So I'll drive to LA the day before. I will rent a place like an Airbnb or someplace, um. So, there's a whole day of getting there, unloading all my stuff, the equipment, the lights, all my clothing, hang everything up, put it all in the closet, get it all ready, all the shoes lined up. Then I have a makeup artist who comes the next morning, a good 1.5 to 2 hours prior. Um, I have a cameraman, a videographer who shows up about 30 minutes prior, and then he sets up all the lighting and asks, where are we starting, what Room we're gonna be in, we go over the script, then the male model or the female model will show up, and then we all sit down and do paperwork where we check IDs, we check each other's, um, STD testing, make sure everyone's cleared, uh, for, uh, sex, sexual testing. Um, THEN we go over the script and the storyline, make sure that everyone understands what their roles are and what things will be said. Um, AND then we talk about, uh, consent. We discuss in the group, what, what, you know, where do you wanna be touched, how do you wanna be touched? Where do you not wanna be touched? What do you not allow? Where, what are your boundaries? Um, IS everyone comfortable with the scenario and the scene and the sex that's gonna happen? AND And then we start shooting. So, you know, it's at least a 4 to 6 hour day. Just for 1 1520 minute scene that you see when it's completely fully edited, that took a whole day to produce and thousands of dollars.

19:41 Ricardo Lopes: Yeah, it's a full work day, right,

19:44 Rachel Steele: actually, yeah, yeah, yeah,

19:46 Ricardo Lopes: yeah. So I mean, I wanted to ask you about your thoughts on the MILF category because of course you're very much associated with that and it's interesting because when, for example, I interviewed Nina Hartley the first time. I asked her if she thought that, for example, having categories in porn like male and interracial, if it would help, for example, with diversity with, in the case, I mean, having female, older females in the industry, having, having black people in the industry, and so on. Uh, AND she actually told me, and I mean, she's extremely experienced. She's, uh, she's have a, uh, uh, she's had a 40 plus year career by now, so she's been at it since 1984 or something like that. Uh, AND, uh, she told me actually that she thinks that it's sort of a double-edged sword sword in the sense that, yeah, OK, so maybe it's easier now than it was before. For for the industry to accept older women into it and more diverse people, I mean more diverse kind of bodies and races and all of that, but at, uh, but at the same time she thinks that there's also the issue of fetishization in the sense that, yeah, OK, so the porn industry basically uses. Older women, black people, and other people like that as a fetish, and they're not really doing that to really promote diversity and inclusion and all of that, but just because they are, I mean, using those social categories as fetishes. I mean, what do you, what is your take on that?

21:44 Rachel Steele: Yeah, I, I would tend to agree with Nina, and I've worked with Nina before. Um, I know her well, and she's, um, a legend in the industry, absolutely, and a very intelligent woman, uh, and I love her, her mindset and her, her outlook. Um, AND I agree, um, I've seen a lot. You know, and it's funny that you bring this up cause I really never thought about this until you just brought it up and put it into this, um, you know, this perspective, but I agree with that. I, I, I always say in my personal private life, uh, I don't want to be put in a box with a bunch of other people, you know, I just don't want to be stamped, labeled, and put in a box, because we're all human beings, and each one of us has our very own fingerprints. So how can you say that we're all MILFs, just because we're a certain age, or, um, you know, just because you have big boobs, you're just this big tittied MILF. You know, there's so much more to these individuals, and also for black, uh, black. Men in the industry, the BBC, I don't really care the way that they market and advertise that either, because I feel like they're just literally focusing on the guy's dick and nothing else about this man. He's a man. He's got a mind. He's got a brain. He's an actor, producer, director, just like me, you know, there's so much to these individuals, and unfortunately they just get marketed in this manner, and I don't care for it myself personally. I really don't care for it. Um, AND that's why, you know, I'm, I'm not a mainstream producer or actor. Um, JUST to, just to defend mainstream a bit though, I have shot in multiple mainstream, uh, for mainstream companies, and they've been wonderful to me, and they're wonderful, uh. And, you know, they help my brand. I get a lot of eyes on my brand when I do show up on a mainstream shoot. So, I don't wanna put it, put them all in the mud. But, um, yeah, I, I really do wish that things would get a little bit kinder and a little more humanized, to be honest. A little more real. But with AI company now, with the digital twins, and even more, you know, I, I'm really curious to see what our world is gonna look like in the next 3 to 5 years.

24:11 Ricardo Lopes: No, I, I mean, I, I'm really not a fan of AI. I'm, I really like, uh, real people doing real things, but, well, let's see, let's see what happens. But I mean, getting, getting into some of the misconceptions that people have about the industry and the performers, particularly. Um, I mean, I, I'm going to ask you about your broader views about it, but, uh, what do you make of when people accuse, for example, the industry itself or even the performers specifically of promoting, uh, I don't know, nonconsensual sex, or promoting sexual assault, of promoting sexual violence. I mean, for It's always been a bit silly, not just because those kinds of claims are not supported by the science, and I've talked on the show with neuroscientists and psychologists about it, but it's not just that, but it's also, I mean, the way I think people should approach pornography is as a form of entertainment, as a form of art. I mean, it's those kinds of. Accusations, it's the same thing that we've heard people, for example, accusing violent video games of promoting violence. I mean, when you play Grand Theft Auto, you don't, after the fact, just suddenly go out on the street with an AR-15 and start shooting at people and robbing cars and all of that. I mean, it's, it should be treated as entertainment.

25:50 Rachel Steele: Absolutely. Yes, and, and that's one thing that, um, that I say a lot is porn is not a source of sexual education. Um, IT'S not a place where you can learn how to be intimate with your partner. Uh, IT'S not a place where you can learn much about real sex, to be honest, because it is choreographed, um, art. It's a form of live art, um. And we, you know, we're camera ready. We are performing because there's a camera there, so we're doing different movements and positions that normally you wouldn't be doing in your private life, in your intimate life. Um, AND Uh, I do the nonconsensual, uh, or what is it called? Consensual non-consent. I have, uh, hundreds, uh, if not 1000, 1200, something like that, videos, damsel in distress. I was doing this back in the day, and it was, you know, grab and attack, and tie, gag, and then fuck, you know, uh. Damsel in distress video. I've been doing that for 15 years, and now I can't sell it on most platforms, cannot sell it. And it's me in the video with my current, my partner at the time, who was my husband, and we're following the 2257 guy. Guidelines, federal guidelines were filming me before and after. Were you harmed or injured? Did you do anything against your will today? Were you under the influence of drugs or alcohol? What's today's date? What is your name? How old are you? You know what I mean? Like we follow everything. This is fantasy roleplay film production. And again, you can watch Game of Thrones. There's violence, there's sex, there's incest. It's OK. It's a Hollywood production. Sell it. But, uh, I can't sell a damsel in distress video that I made with uh my husband. So, you know, be careful, follow the, follow the rules, follow the guidelines, make sure everyone is consenting, have proof of consent, um, and I don't know why we shouldn't be able to produce. Uh, WE are very discriminated against, um, as, uh, filmmakers because we are filmmakers. We have full productions. Some of the mainstream productions are $200,000 to $30,000 a day that their, uh, you know, cost is, and we can't say this, we can't do that. We can't have a glass, a wine glass in our hands. ANY longer with water in it. We can't portray that we're having a cocktail. We can't sleep on, on screen anymore. I can't lay down with my eyes closed. Or if I have to do my eyes closed, nobody can even touch me to wake me up. That's considered non-consent. It's unbelievable, you know, what we're being restricted on now. So, Yeah, things, I hope things can change in a more positive light, and, you know, these federal laws and all these guidelines can be understood that this is production and it's fantasy film.

29:03 Ricardo Lopes: Yeah, so as I was telling you just before we started recording, I, I very much identify as a feminist, as a male feminist, but I'm a sex positive feminist, not that kind of sex negative feminist, particularly the Radical feminists who position themselves against the sex work, pornography, and I mean, many different kinds of sexual expression. I mean, one of the arguments that very commonly I hear from them and we hear from them is that, I mean, people, particularly the female performers. ARE exploited that they are basically victims that no woman out there out of her own free will chooses to become a porn performer or a sex worker of any Other kind that they're, they're always coerced into it. I mean, don't you think that that's perhaps a bit, um, that's perhaps being patronizing to females who are sex workers?

30:20 Rachel Steele: Oh, absolutely, and, uh, everything that you just stated is absolutely 100% incorrect and wrong. Uh, IT'S mis misinformation. It's perspectives coming from places of, uh, you know, beliefs. Systems and cultural systems in place that are just against, um, you know, this whole industry as a whole, um, but the industry as a whole and sex work as a whole is very healing. It's a very safe place. It's a very good place to be. Um, AS a dominatrix, I've been able to see people's Uh, when they tell me they're kinks, they actually have so much shame around their kinks because of the way they were brought up and raised, whether it be in a religious home, telling them that they were sinners and, uh, shameful, and, uh, sick, um, disturbed. Like you wouldn't believe the stories that I've heard, the shame built around. Uh, JUST one sexual thought, you know. So, this is, this can be a very healing, uh, space for people, for sex workers and for the customers, um, the clients, the fans, the followers. It's very liberating. It provides jobs and work for people that, you know, like I said before, I was in the salon industry, and then that had to end pretty quickly because the neighborhood got really dangerous, and I literally had to close my business, and I was like, what am I going to do? I don't have the money to open another hair salon. Um. And I don't have any, like, I, I, I don't have any skills. I would just have to get a job wherever I could apply for a job and work in a bakery, in a retail store, you know, in a restaurant serving, and that's my future. So, now I'm a CEO of my own company, um, million dollar company, and still growing. I'm having a marketing thing coming soon. I have a production company. I did this all as a A young single female, uh, with, with just barely a high school diploma. So, this whole being exploited, I've chosen not to, uh, to work with whoever I want to work with. So, I'm not exploited. Um, I'm, I'm doing what I want to do with who I want to work with. I'm also on a WhatsApp messaging group with several 100 different porn stars, if not more than several 100 there's a lot. And These women are all chatting away about how their life is. They're all independent workers with their own businesses. They're making their own money. They own their own homes, their cars. They're paying their bills. They're living their lives. They're supporting their children. They are doing what they want. To do when they wanna do it with who they wanna do it, um, you know, since OnlyFans started, people are working from home more. Um, SO this is a very empowering industry, um, and it's a business just like every other business too, so there's so many opportunities. And there's so many good people that are in this industry as well, and good companies and really legitimate business-minded entrepreneurs and a big support system within the industry of sex work in a whole, not just film, but sex workers or escorts, you know, people, all, all, all walks of life. So I support it 100%, and I think that it gives people a lot of opportunity.

34:05 Ricardo Lopes: Don't you think that when people like these sex negative feminists that uh curiously enough many times because they are against sex work even though feminism supposedly is progressive, end up aligning themselves with conservative people to try to bring down sex work, to try to ban it on the internet, ban it on social media. To try to impose sin taxes on social workers, to try to criminalize sex workers, sex work and all of that, don't you think that they actually might end up putting sex workers at risk, at financial risk, uh, at the risk of having to work in less safe environments and all of that.

35:00 Rachel Steele: Absolutely, yes. Um, Yes, to, to all of that. It, it does put everyone at risk, um, you know. Making it criminal, illegal, um, it, it's the oldest profession in the world, so it's not gonna go away. Also, this industry makes more money than Google, NFL, and Apple combined, you know, something like that. It literally does, uh, and so all these individuals who criticize it are probably some of your biggest fans watching it, uh, because they're lying if they say they don't. This is normal human behavior, and we need to drop the whole facade and stop all the shame around nudity and. Sex and people's kinks and fetishes and desires. Instead learn about them. The power is knowledge, you know, the more knowledge is power, the more you know, uh, the more you understand and the easier things can be and people can live peacefully and, and be accepted for who they are and how they feel and creators can create fantasy roleplay things for people to. View as entertaining for their pleasure, for their entertainment, uh, and the more that we negate this, this industry and the people in the industry, uh, the more dangerous it does become for them. Um, AND I think it's great that you're doing this podcast and using these words, this language like humanizing sex workers because we, we. We are human and we do live our lives every day. We wake up with messy hair and pajamas on backwards and have to figure out what we're gonna cook for breakfast, you know, and walk the dog if he didn't already pee on the floor. And, you know, we're, we're just everyday people, and we're doing things that those negative, those negative Nancy's out there. ARE watching. So it's really time to just stop. It's just so silly, you know, it's like we're dealing with a bunch of toddlers. Um, AND I hope that as time goes on, we become a more progressive, open-minded society. Um, I don't see a lot of signs of that happening, but, you know, I, I do have hope, but Yeah, making it, criminalizing it and, and stuff like that does make it very unsafe. Um, YOU know, if you get assaulted, you can't go to the police. If you, you know, get debanked, you can't open a bank account. How are you going to pay for your bills? How are you going to survive? So there's definitely things that are happening that we're, we, um, as a whole, we're all, uh, trying to, to become a little more like activists in this industry when this banking thing happened to, uh, performer. Called Cherie deville, uh, we literally all went online and started reposting, reposting, and tagging the bank to let them know we're not gonna just sit around and be quiet and let you do this to us because you don't like what we do. We're paying taxes. We've got a legitimate business. We've got a license. We've got an LLC. We're incorporated. What more do you want, you know, and then you just shut the bank down. Nope, you can't, you can't bank here. We don't like what you do.

38:14 Ricardo Lopes: Yeah, I mean, what have you seen to be some of the biggest threats to sex workers online, particularly over the past few years? I mean, apart from things like their banks. Sending them in some way or another and them not being able to access their money or some of their money, I mean, things that occur on how in terms of how sex workers are targeted on social media, for example, and the internet more generally and some. Measures, political measures that people have been trying to implement to try to actually ban porn and other kinds of sexual expression from the internet. I mean, what do you think are the biggest or have been the biggest threats recently?

39:17 Rachel Steele: Well, really, um, Pretty much everything that you listed is, uh, a threat, and I see a lot of very negative, uh, comments on social media. Um, uh, FORTUNATELY, I haven't received a lot of negativity in my whole career. It's been really good, but I've seen like others, uh, receiving a lot of negativity, really nasty comments, hateful. Um, COMMENTS that to me are threatening, um, things like, you're a dirty whore, you're diseased, and, you know, just these, these horrible comments coming, um, and that kind of hate. IS eye-opening, and it, it feels very threatening and violent to me, verbal violence. Um, SO I guess the negativity that is around and the, the myth and the misunderstandings about what we do and who we are as people, so that really needs to change to make it more of a safe space.

40:22 Ricardo Lopes: Do you think that there's still lots of social stigma attached to being a sex worker, even nowadays?

40:31 Rachel Steele: I do. And even just for myself, um, I, I have this conversation with my partner a lot because I struggle, psychologically, I struggle and I feel really bad, and I feel sad, and I feel alone sometimes. I feel, uh, I actually have a part of my brain that's telling me and whispering that I'm doing something wrong, bad, shameful. Um, AND the reason I feel these feelings is because when I go out into the real world, I just moved to San Diego a couple of years ago, I moved to San Diego, but I just purchased a home in San Diego, and I have neighbors, and some of my neighbors have teenage kids, and I literally don't tell them what I do for a living, because I don't know that they would be safe, feel safe with that, you know, that they would judge me. As some kind of person that's not safe, and, oh no, a porn star lives right there. Oh my God. You know, like I, I have no idea how these people are gonna think. I haven't told any of my neighbors what I do for a living. So, and when we meet new people, I don't just volunteer what I do because I don't know how they're gonna be, how they're gonna feel, react. Um, WE did meet a couple, uh, just a month ago or so in the neighborhood. And they seemed really cool. So, I told them right away who I am and what I do, and we haven't seen them since. So, it's really hard to make friends that are genuine, that accept you for who you are and what you do as a, you know, as a, you know, as a, a career. And these people are 30s, 40s, and 50s. So, you know, it's like, if they can't accept what I'm doing, well, you know, So it's really a, a real thing, and it's really, um, we have uh friends that are a queer couple, and they don't want to hear about my work either. Um, IF I start talking about, they'll say, how was your weekend? I went to LA to work, and I'll say, oh, it was great. I shot with this new male talent, and he was really cute, and we, we had a great scene, and they're just like, oh, that's good. And they just shut down. They don't want to hear, and I'm not gonna go into detail, you know, and make it real nasty, but I can't even talk about my day. I can't talk about my work. I can't share the, the growth that my business has had, um, you know, it, it's, it's sad, and it's like, these people should be people I should be able to talk to. Just have a conversation like I'm having with you right now. Um, BUT boy, when you say that you're a sex worker or you're a porn producer, people's minds, spaces, body language change, and it's rare to find people that are like, oh, that's so cool. Tell me more. It's just not happening, so that kind of tells you what's going on out in the in the world.

43:33 Ricardo Lopes: No, I get really bothered by that, and that's one of the reasons why I've been doing this series on my podcast and YouTube channel. I mean, because many times it's just the things that people think about sex workers, it's just based on assumptions, stereotypes, prejudice. I mean, sometimes I even get angry and ask people, have you ever talked To a sex worker, have you ever met a sex worker? I mean, they're just regular, normal, normal people like you and I. There are extremely intelligent, entrepreneurial, and other kinds of positive traits that you can associate in anyone. You can also, you can also find sex workers that are all of that and even more. I mean, I've had some of my, my favorite conversations. On the show I've been with sex workers with Nina Hartley, Alice Little, and others. I mean, it's just fascinating also because you guys also have a particular perspective on sex, sexual expression, and all of that, that norm is like me and other people don't get. So I just find it really fascinating and then associated, associating with other aspects of life. And I mean sometimes it really Hurts me. Earlier I talked about feminism. I'm also a socialist and it really hurts me because it's very, very common for me to hear people who are socialists, communists, and so on also being positioning themselves against sex work because they're always saying that, oh, it's debasing, it's objectifying, it's not a dignifying job, it's not a dignifying occupation. And I don't want the state to have anything to do with that. And then they start to talking about how they don't want the state to get to legalize or decriminalize sex work because they don't even want to touch on money coming from taxes, from taxes from sex work. And I mean for me it's just ridiculous. It's just people not really ever talking to sex workers.

46:03 Rachel Steele: Yeah, and I would like to ask some, someone who has that stance. I would love to really have them give an honest answer. Um, WHAT sex do you have? Like, what is your sexual life? They would never answer, of course, but I would love to know because we're all human beings at the end of the day. Uh, HOPEFULLY, we all have desire and libido, and, you know, want to have pleasure in our lives in, in one form of intimacy or another that might involve sexual, you know, whatever. I know some people are asexual and And, you know, some people might have trauma. I'm not saying everyone should have sex and like it and love it, you know, but I would love to ask this person that is so stance against it, like, what kind of sex do you have? If you're saying it's objectifying, then how do you feel when you see a woman's breasts? If you're sexually turned on, you are objectifying that woman's breasts. You should not look at breasts, you know, like, and then if you don't look at the breasts and keep yourself covered up, and you live like that for five years, you are going to fetishize those breasts because you can't have, you can't see it. It's like telling someone there's cooked fresh baked cookies over there, but do not touch or eat them. You know, you can smell them, but you can't eat them or touch them. It's just, it's just not real, you know, and, and it's just, um, unfortunately, this has been going on since the beginning of time, you know, the judgment, the shame, and then you build religious. Beliefs around that, and then you have this little culture, and now everyone, you all should be in the same little boxes and believe the same things. And when someone steps out, well, that's when you point your finger and judge and shame and get rid of that, and get rid of this. But, you know, I, I just don't see that it's, uh, realistic.

47:54 Ricardo Lopes: Yeah, but do you think that pornography is for everyone, I mean, not everyone in the sense necessarily that anyone should watch it, but more in the sense of whether you think that anyone could be a good porn performer or could do well working in pornography.

48:20 Rachel Steele: Yeah, I think that that's a very personal individualized, um, question for the, for each individual to ask themselves, and to be very honest. Um, WHEN I first fell into the industry, I, I was uh very apprehensive and intimidated by mainstream. Um, BECAUSE whenever I did turn on vanilla mainstream porn, I personally was not drawn, attracted, turned on by it at all. And 20 years ago, there wasn't a whole lot of diversity in porn. So, it was kind of, that's all there really was. Hot blonde women with big, uh, you know, fake implants getting railed by men with penises down to their kneecaps. And I was like, Like, oh, I, uh, well, first of all, I don't look like her, and I've never seen a man like that. And I don't think I could have sex like that. And so, I just couldn't relate to it. Um, AND today, we've got so much more happening, and so more, there's some really great production companies out there doing more realistic storylines, uh, where people can really relate to the characters and even look and think like, oh, I kind of look like her, or I look like that man. Um, AND so I think that we, we have more opportunity today to, to be creators. So anyone out there that's even thinking about doing this, I would say, if you have an interest in this and you think that this is something you might wanna explore, do it on your own. TERMS, do it all, your own ideas, be you. Always stay true and be you. Um, DON'T, you can watch other things to get ideas, but don't try to recreate or be like this or be like that, or do anything that doesn't feel right to you. Um, AND if it feels right to you and you're enjoying and you're having a good time, then you should go for it because it, it's a very liberating experience. It's really helped resolve a lot of traumas in my life, my personal life that I've had. I've been in therapy for many years, um, and shooting like this and, um, experiencing and, uh, Living this lifestyle that I've been living the last two decades has really, uh, helped to heal me psychologically, spiritually, sexually. Um, SO, it's been, um, an, an amazing journey and experience for me, and I would highly recommend it, but it, it, it's only for people that want it. You wouldn't do this just because you think you can make some money, you know, I, I wouldn't recommend that.

51:01 Ricardo Lopes: Do you have a different outlook on sex now than you had 20 years ago?

51:08 Rachel Steele: Definitely, definitely, yeah, um. And it's been an interesting journey for me, and it's taken a long, slow time for me too, because I was very vanilla when I first entered in. So, my way of thinking back then was very different from the way I'm thinking right now today, um, with all the years that have gone by, and all the different people that I've worked with, and Um, entering into the dominatrix and the BDSM realm, um, has really opened my eyes, and I've realized a lot of, uh, psychology, um, archeeotypes, and trauma-based. Oh, setbacks, holdbacks, blockages, um, those things have been released and, and opened for me, and now I'm actually having the best sex of my life, um, you know, now, because my mind is more open. Um, I feel safe. I know that I'm loved and I'm safe, and I'm choosing everything that I wanna do and who I wanna work with, and what we're going to do, what the storyline will be, and it's becoming, like, a lot of fun instead of work.

52:25 Ricardo Lopes: Yeah, I mean, I actually think that many of the people who position themselves against sex work must have some form of unhealthy relationship with sex themselves. I mean, because I don't think you should think it's normal for you to find sex or certain kinds of sexual expression disgusting. Right.

52:53 Rachel Steele: Um, YES, um. I think that having a healthy mindset is first and foremost, you know, the most important part of being able to, uh, explore sex and sexuality, feeling safe, surrounding yourself with people that are of the same mindset, where there's no shame, um, there's support, encouragement, um, it, it can be an amazing journey when you find your community. Um, THE sky is the limit.

53:27 Ricardo Lopes: Yeah, so I have just one last topic I wanted to ask you about because you actually were interviewed for a piece that featured on Playboy about rising production costs in the porn. Industry. So when since you are a business owner and a porn producer and director, uh, tell us about that. I mean, in what ways have, uh, has inflation in recent times impacted the production of porn?

54:03 Rachel Steele: Yeah, well, um, I've been on set with mainstream, and I was literally counting all the girls that are there, and I know what their rates are, and then there's a couple of guys, I know what their rates are, then they've got two videographers, a still photographer, a guy that's putting the lights, and a guy that's running and getting all the food, the director. And I'm adding it all up and I'm like, oh my gosh, I, I just counted 30,000 already, and this is for a 4 hour day. So for 1 20 minute, maybe 30 minute, uh, Clip, you know, so, as a small producer, um, I, I don't spend that kind of money on one, production, but it's at least $5000 or $6000 for each one that I produce, um, and your time and travel, um. It's getting trickier for locations because a lot of Airbnbs don't allow, um, so, you know, you don't, and I don't want to shoot in hotel rooms because I like, I'm a very storylined, uh, producer. I want a house. I want a living room, a kitchen, a bedroom. I want to set the scene and, you know, make people feel like it's a lot more than just hotel door, open the door, there's a bed, and that. That's it, you know, um, so it's getting tricky with locations on where we can film, where we're allowed to film, um, people's rates are going up, which is, that's fair, but it's getting harder to, um, hire folks too, because everyone's doing OnlyFans. Um, AND my, my red flag for Only. Fans is to tell every creator out there is to not put all of your eggs in that one basket and just focus on OnlyFans only, that's it, because OnlyFans could collapse tomorrow, you know, political climate, someone could buy it from somebody else and just say, now we're not gonna allow any more adult stuff on here. It's only for athletes and celebrities, you know, you just don't know what's gonna happen next, so. You know, it's definitely getting a little bit uh more uh more expensive and a little bit trickier, uh, difficult for for producers, for sure.

56:21 Ricardo Lopes: Uh, YEAH, what do you think are perhaps some of the biggest challenges, uh, I mean, currently and in the near future?

56:32 Rachel Steele: The biggest challenge is, hm. Well, It's, for me, it's definitely where we have a lot of really great talent, but it's definitely the male talent is becoming, uh, can become a little bit of a challenge. Uh, IT'S, it's a lot harder for men in the industry than it is for women to perform. And that, that's becoming, it's always been an issue, um, but it, you know, the more. The more quantity that they put out, the more we use the same guys over and over, and these guys, their bodies, they can only do so much. So there's a lot going on behind the scenes with, um, men in the industry having to inject, uh, their penises with drugs that will keep them hard or taking. You know, pills to keep them hard, and that raises blood pressure and, you know, can you do this every day, 5 days a week as a male performer. So, uh, finding good male performers, um, that's becoming a little bit of a challenge as well.

57:43 Ricardo Lopes: Yeah, OK, so I mean I've guessed that we've already explored some of that, but would you like to just leave a final message to people who have a negative view of sex work and sex workers? I mean, what would you like to tell them to perhaps try to make them more open to Developing a different view of that.

58:12 Rachel Steele: Yeah, it's, that's a tricky one because I know people that have that stance, and it's really hard to break through once people have a belief system in place. It's really hard to, um, you know, to sway that. But, you know, aside from me trying to convince, I would just simply say that, um, you know, we're all sexual animals. We all enjoy. SEX, masturbation, intimacy, whatever that looks like for you, and you really ask yourself, do I use porn for my own private pleasure? And if you do, and you're still saying porn is bad, you know, you need to look in the mirror. You're, you're being a hypocrite. Um, THIS is for entertainment purposes only. We are producers, actors, directors. We're mothers, we're sisters, we're, um, you know, we're just people in the world making, making a living and giving you something for entertainment that can bring pleasure as well. Um, SO humanizing this as an industry, normalizing it as an industry is really important, and that's what we all really need to work on and focus on is trying to bring it home. That, you know, this is, this is normal. It's OK. If you don't like it, you know you don't have to watch it, but you don't need to, uh, demonize everyone who's doing this if you don't like it. Um, IT'S just, you know, unfortunately, it's like religion. You know, we've got one religion here and another religion here, and they've been killing each other, killing each other in wars, uh, for thousands of years, just because I don't like. Your God and you don't like my God, you know, this is porn. I don't like porn, so let's end it. But I do like porn. So, why should we end it if you don't like it, you know, so it's, I don't know. I don't know. All I know is I'm glad you're using this language like humanizing sex work and uh let's normalize this because, again, just about everybody does some sort of sexual something. So, you know, let's just stop denying that and just be real, be human, and it's not in your face. Uh, IT'S something that you have to click buttons to get to. So, you know, we're not trying to walk naked down your neighborhood street. Um, WE just wanna be able to, to be able to work in a safe environment and create the best product that we can for people, people's entertainment and people's pleasure.

1:00:53 Ricardo Lopes: OK, great. So where can people find you? Give us all your handles, websites, all of that.

1:01:00 Rachel Steele: Yep, I would just go right to the website because everything is there. So it's Rachel sh Steele. S T E E L E.com. That's Rachel-Steel.com. And there you'll find all of my 5,000+ movies from two decades and still going strong, and my, all of my social media and my store where you can buy lingerie and all kinds of fun things, and, uh, live chats, live streams, all kinds of custom videos, whatever you want.

1:01:35 Ricardo Lopes: Great. So Rachel, thank you so much for taking the time to come on the show. It's been really fun and fascinating to talk with you, and I really hope that I'm contributing to help humanizing sex workers through this series, but it's been a great honor to everyone.

1:01:53 Rachel Steele: Thank you so much, Ricardo. Yes, and, and you're doing a wonderful job, and uh I appreciate you, and I know that our entire community appreciates you as well.

1:02:03 Ricardo Lopes: Hi guys, thank you for watching this interview until the end. If you liked it, please share it, leave a like and hit the subscription button. The show is brought to you by Enlights Learning and Development done differently. Check their website at enlights.com and also please consider supporting the show on Patreon or PayPal. I would also like to give a huge thank you to my main patrons and PayPal supporters, Perergo Larsson, Jerry Muller, Frederick Sundo, Bernard Seyaz Olaf, Alex, Adam Cassel, Matthew Whittingberrd, Arnaud Wolff, Tim Hollis, Eric Elena, John Connors, Philip Forst Connolly. Then Dmitri Robert Windegerru Inai Zu Mark Nevs, Colin Holbrookfield, Governor, Michel Stormir, Samuel Andrea, Francis Forti Agnun, Svergoo, and Hal Herzognun, Machael Jonathan Labran, John Yardston, and Samuel Curric Hines, Mark Smith, John Ware, Tom Hammel, Sardusran, David Sloan Wilson, Yasilla Dezaraujo Romain Roach, Diego Londono Correa. Yannik Punteran Ruzmani, Charlotte Blis Nicole Barbaro, Adam Hunt, Pavlostazevski, Alekbaka Madison, Gary G. Alman, Semov, Zal Adrian Yei Poltontin, John Barboza, Julian Price, Edward Hall, Edin Bronner, Douglas Fry, Franco Bartolati, Gabriel Pancortez or Suliliski, Scott Zachary Fish, Tim Duffy, Sony Smith, and Wisman. Daniel Friedman, William Buckner, Paul Georg Jarno, Luke Lovai, Georgios Theophannus, Chris Williamson, Peter Wolozin, David Williams, Dio Costa, Anton Ericsson, Charles Murray, Alex Shaw, Marie Martinez, Coralli Chevalier, Bangalore atheists, Larry D. Lee Junior. Old Eringbon. Esterri, Michael Bailey, then Spurber, Robert Grassy, Zigoren, Jeff McMahon, Jake Zul, Barnabas Raddix, Mark Kempel, Thomas Dovner, Luke Neeson, Chris Story, Kimberly Johnson, Benjamin Galbert, Jessica Nowicki, Linda Brendan, Nicholas Carlson, Ismael Bensleyman. George Ekoriati, Valentine Steinmann, Per Crawley, Kate Van Goler, Alexander Obert, Liam Dunaway, BR, Massoud Ali Mohammadi, Perpendicular, Jannes Hetner, Ursula Guinov, Gregory Hastings, David Pinsov, Sean Nelson, Mike Levin, and Jos Necht. A special thanks to my producers Iar Webb, Jim Frank Lucas Stink, Tom Vanneden, Bernardine Curtis Dixon, Benedict Mueller, Thomas Trumbull, Catherine and Patrick Tobin, John Carlo Montenegro, Al Nick Cortiz, and Nick Golden, and to my executive producers, Matthew Lavender, Sergio Quadrian, Bogdan Kanis, and Rosie. Thank you for all.