#1269 Breeze Oliver & Kerushi Drake: Destroying Every Manosphere Claim

00:00 Ricardo Lopes: Hello everyone. Welcome to a new episode of The Dissenter. I'm your host, as always, Ricard Lops, and today I'm joined by, uh, fellow YouTubers, Bruce Oliver and Kushi Drake. They are the hosts of Lob Up for Deb for Debate podcast. And today we're going to talk about the manosphere. Hopefully we're going to destroy those guys today. So Bruce and Kushi, welcome to the show. It's, I've been, I've been following your podcast for, I mean, almost since the very beginning actually. So I love your episode. So thank you so much for doing this.

00:38 Breeze Oliver: Thank you for having us. Uh, WE'RE, we're excited, you know, um, we're excited and we're glad that we have some more people that, you know, that, uh, especially in this space because, funny enough, um, the man is for kind of red pill is honestly what led us to kind of wanting to do this, um, because I just, I just feel like they have single-handedly contributed to like the destruction of the relationship between men and women, and, uh, they have a, a really stronghold on the, on the young generation, and, um. And, and honestly, like I, I just don't think relationships have to be anything remotely what they talk about. And uh I, I feel like the space really needs more kind of men who combat a lot of the, the, the ideologies that they preach. So that's one of the reasons we kind of came into the space because, you know, obviously we don't talk about Red Pill Mannister stuff every episode, but we do just talk about like normal like normal relationship issues and like how to just deal with them, men and between men and women. And obviously we have our differences, but we also have a lot of the same kind of, you know, traits and characteristics and things, a lot of things can be hashed out with just like proper, you know, proper, uh, um, skills and proper communication and proper, um. Uh, CONVERSATION and, uh, it doesn't have to be this hateful, you know, bickering relationship, turmoil, uh, between men and women, and, uh, they would have you believe otherwise. So.

02:02 Ricardo Lopes: Oh yeah, that's for sure, and I mean I guess that men and women have much more in common than they have when it comes to their differences, but I mean we might get into that later, but what I mean, what, what have been the things that have irritated you guys the most when it When it comes to claims made by manosphere people, particularly the ones who are actually the front guys when it comes to that. I mean, the Andrew Tits, the HAS Sticky talkers, and people like that.

02:40 Breeze Oliver: Yeah, that. Um, SOME of the, some of the biggest issues I think, or some of the things that kind of stand out to me, um, the most are the things that they tell you that women are like the only reason they want men. Um, uh, YOU know, this overgeneralization of all women want men for some like key things and, um, it would have you believe that they're all just a monolith and uh. And these things, these things that they tell you that women want you for are really to degrade women. They, they demonize them, you know, and, and, and give this sort of negative connotation and so they use that to manipulate men into saying, hey, you know, because women only want the. Things attain those things and then, you know, he can bag a bunch of women and then kick him to the curb and I just think it's, it's really um destructive, you know, um, but those are kind of some of the, the main points obviously, um, the, the, the sad part is that some of their talking points for uplifting men actually hold true and they're not bad, um, but they're. They use um. They like to, to, it's a lot of those same traits they use to degrade women and they, they want, you know, they, they preach to manipulate women with those same traits. And you know, I, I just, yeah, it's just, it's just all negative. It's, it's all negative, but yeah, their hate towards women, um, is, and it's funny because, you know, I said this before, but they'll tell you that they love, you know, we love women, we love women, and it's just, that's not what love looks like.

04:19 Ricardo Lopes: Yeah. And I don't think they love women at all, because I, I mean the way they talk about them and uh I mean the kinds of, even if you watched, I, I think you probably watched that documentary, I, if I remember correctly, you even mentioned it in one of your episodes on the manosphere, the Louis, the Louis Theroux documentary where he talks with uh S Nico and the guy from Fresh and Fit and all of those guys and I mean, even the way they talk about their upbringing and the relationship they have or the lack of relationship with their dads and their mums and all of that, and the way they, for example, think about only or talk about only fans models and all of that. I mean, I, for me it's pretty clear that they actually hate women and. What, what seems to me is that they're even more interested in trying to impress other guys than impressing women themselves.

05:23 Breeze Oliver: Oh, that's such a good one. That's such a good one. You know, my rebuttal, um, my rebuttal for, for when men, because they love to call me a simp, that's, that's their word, right? And I said, if I simp for women, then you simp for men, and I'd rather be the former.

05:40 Ricardo Lopes: Yeah, yeah, that, that's, that's exactly the same thing I say. Uh, I'm like, yeah, yeah, I'm a sing for women. Whoa, what, what, what a, what a problem.

05:54 Breeze Oliver: No, absolutely, absolutely, it's like you, you can't really, you know, and it's, and it's sad because they paint, they, they, they paint just, you know, uh, like overall genuinely just like wanting to treat women with respect and not being misogynistic. They, they treat that as if like, yeah, like if you are simping and it's like, no, that's just general decency, like that's general human decency, you know, it it it's, it's crazy that they're able to kind of manipulate it and mask it as some sort of um. You know, it's some sort of like, oh, you must be doing this to get to get women and uh and it just, it just, it's it's silly. I've even had people comment on some of our stuff and say um that I'm simping for her and it's like you you do know like we have a child together, we've been together for 8 years. Like I don't, I don't, it's just hilarious, right? And it's and it's um. You know, and I guess my, my problem, the biggest, the biggest thing I find is that the men that do comment on things, they've just been, they've been entangled in that world. And so there's a there's a side of me that says like, I want to help them and like mentor them and and Like, hey, you don't have to believe in, you don't have to subscribe to these prescriptions that they give you. But on the other side, I'm so irritated with them that my response is usually pretty harsh, you know, and it's like, I don't know if it's counterproductive or not, but I just I just find that it's so detrimental to women. And at the end of the day for me, what I find is that um most of us are just like we just yearn for love and companionship and there's there's ways to go about and getting those, but both men. And women want those things. And it's just about finding the, the, we both speak different languages and it's about finding that common language, right? Like becoming bilingual so you can talk to your partner the correct way and understand her and then vice versa. And, and when they don't understand you, instead of, you know, you know, berating them or degrading them, you, you help them understand you, you know, and then if you both are able to kind of find that common ground and you're working to understand each other, it's really hard to fail. It really is. It is, yeah.

07:53 Ricardo Lopes: Yeah, but, but I mean they have no communication skills at all.

07:57 Breeze Oliver: That's it. Yeah, none. No communication skill. No like, no, um, there's so much hypocrisy in what the man is like there's so much hypocrisy. I laugh at it all the time. Um. I talked about it a little bit on the episode, but I said, you know, they will, like we, like you brought up the, the OnlyFans, they will bash women for OnlyFans. They will bash them for being promiscuous. They'll tell men, you know, she has a high body count, she's a low value woman. On the other hand. They will encourage men to sleep with as many women as they can. The hypocrisy is insane. That is insane. So if all men took your advice and slept with as many women as you can, it would just lead into the same reason you bash women. How does that work? It's, it's, it's crazy to me. That's, that's insane.

08:45 Ricardo Lopes: Not, not only that, but many women would have to have their body can't go, body count go up because there would have to be enough women to sleep around with, right? So with every

08:57 Breeze Oliver: single guy who wants to, you know, it's just crazy, like the math isn't math, man, it doesn't, it's not math. Here, you know, and um and then and then the fact that they even teach you to to to to value a woman on her body count. I mean, obviously there's a double standard there because they're going to tell you that a woman, she's lower value because of her body count while still preaching to men to sleep with as many women as you can. And it's like, so, you know, men gain value in their body count, but women lose value. I don't subscribe to that double standard.

09:23 Ricardo Lopes: No, uh, and I mean why should a woman even, uh, put to, to put enough trust in a man who, for example, I don't know, has a body count of 100. I mean it just sweeps around all the time. I mean, I mean it's, it's the same, right, the same logic should apply.

09:44 Breeze Oliver: You know, and, and yeah, it's, it's, um, so I find that a lot of the things, a lot of things that they try to prescribe to men, a lot of it just, just contradicts each other, you know, you, you can't talk about, you know, relationships not being healthy between men and women. Like the one thing they'll do is that they'll preach to you that women are. Hypergamous, right? And that they want men for their money and so forth and so on. And but you guys will also tell men to get their money up, to make a bunch of money so that you can get more women. It's just, there's so much contradiction in what they preach. And it's like, how do you, how are people not catching on to this? You know, and I get it. I get how they gripped the youth. I understand because they, they found that that hole where men, you know, you know, were feeling pain and they were feeling, um, left out and they were feeling alone. And there's, there's really easy cures to that, but these guys continue that, they continue that destructive path for men. Um, AND they'll tell you to, you know, they'll tell you that, you know, you know, that, that they'll they'll they'll get into the minds of those guys that do feel alone and do feel depressed or do feel anxious, um, and then they'll keep reinforcing the things that keep you in that same mindset, um, you know, not showing emotion, not being vulnerable, not, uh, displaying any sort of emotional intelligence, right? And, uh, things that actually help your mental health, things that actually are, to me, I would attribute to what like healthy masculinity. You know, as opposed to keeping it all in, being strong all the time. Like I would say your true strength is in your confidence to tell people that you're going through something. Your confidence, they fear monger the hell out of you and then tell you you're you're you're soft for being scared, but all they do is operate out of fear. Fear that a woman's going to leave you. Fear that a woman's going to take all your money. Fear that a woman's going to take your kids. Fear that like all of these things that you guys are all scared of these things. And and it's, it's, again, I can, I can count on 10 hands how much contradictions that they preach to these men. And it's like, you know, if we could just find a way to get away from that thought process and um and and and tell like, you know, there is a way to help men, but it's it's men encouraging other men. Hey, you, you can talk about your feelings. You can be emotional. And then those men that are telling them that, not demeaning them for doing such. You know,

12:02 Ricardo Lopes: no, and I mean another funny thing is that they sell the idea that if you just buy into their ideas, their claims, and if you buy their courses or whatever, then you will be successful, but actually their own success depends on exploiting the contradiction, man. And exploiting guys that are lonely. So if, if the guys that they say they want to make successful would actually be successful, then they would no longer be their clients. Right,

12:39 Breeze Oliver: right. I mean, it's such a good point. It's such a good point. It's, it's, it's crazy how, how it works and um and it's sad because we're not dealing with the guys that are preaching it. I'm stuck dealing with the guys who have subscribed to it. You know, and so are the women, and so are the women, right? It's not, it's not the, the, it's not these red pill, Andrew Tates, Myron Gaines guys. It's, it's the guys that followed them and subscribe to them that the women in the world are now trying to have to deal with. And you wonder why this dating pool is, is going south, you know, you wonder why dating is going south, why marriages are going south, and you know,

13:12 Ricardo Lopes: I mean, actually, I think that women also have to deal with uh, with Andrew Tate and Myron because first of all. First of all, Andrew T is a sex trafficker, right? So, so that's, that's, that's the right thing. And then the other guys, I mean, even if just the relationships they showed in the Louis Theroux documentary, I mean, they are just fucked up relationships. So, you know, and,

13:41 Breeze Oliver: and yeah, it's, it's, it's funny you bring it up. It's like these guys, none of them have meaningful relationships. Like none of them have meaningful relationships. I, I talk about this and I say, You can watch these women. Obviously we know that um one of them got, I think it was Myra Gaines where his girlfriend left, ends up leaving him at the end of the, you know, by the end of the show, and I've seen, I've actually seen interviews with her since, and clearly she's like much happier now and kind of opened her eyes to this stuff. You know, one of the other guys, um, can't think of his name, he was kind of the suave guy always dressed up, uh, one of Andrew Tate's like close friends.

14:14 Ricardo Lopes: That guy, I can't remember his name.

14:16 Breeze Oliver: I know it's popular Justin, Justin. Just in something.

14:21 Ricardo Lopes: Yeah, it's just in something. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that's right. That's right.

14:25 Breeze Oliver: Yeah. And you watch him and he talks about how he can sleep with multiple women and his wife doesn't care, a quote unquote wife. I don't even know if they're married. I couldn't really understand the dynamic, but says his wife doesn't care. And her response to that is, well, I just don't want to know about it. That doesn't signal I don't care. That signals I care. I just don't want my feelings hurt, right? There's nothing meaningful. There's no substance there. These guys, again, they they I think it's cool and they, but it's just all manipulation and then of course you got Andrew Tate who obviously again has no meaningful. I mean he sex traffics women. He, he, he flies women across the world and tells them he's going to marry them, then he coerces them into these, um, well, allegedly I think because I know this case is still going on and I don't want to get, you know, I don't want them to come after me but you know, from, from what the documents say, from what the indictments say, from my understanding is that they are charging him for, you know, flying women, you know, saying that he was gonna marry them or promising some sort of relationship and then. Coercing them into doing, you know, cam cam model model cam stuff and then obviously never, never carrying on some sort of relationship with these women and that's where the, the trafficking comes in, right? He's, you know, he's, he's harboring women, bringing them in from other countries, and then promising something that, that he never delivers on. And, um, this is the guy that, that we're, we're calling the masculine, the, the guy that we want to follow like I. I don't know. I don't know. I, I just, that, that seems like a really, that seems like a just a life doom for, for a lot of pain and, and no one loving you.

15:52 Ricardo Lopes: So yeah, the same guy who said he was a world champion in kickboxing and then just a few months ago, he was completely destroyed.

16:02 Breeze Oliver: Yeah, he got his ass whooped. He got his ass whooped, yeah. So, you know,

16:07 Ricardo Lopes: I, I, I mean that guy is so pathetic. I, I don't know if you watched an interview with it with Piers Morgan. I think

16:13 Breeze Oliver: it

16:13 Ricardo Lopes: was,

16:14 Breeze Oliver: yeah, I've seen him.

16:15 Ricardo Lopes: Have you watched them all because you them all.

16:17 Breeze Oliver: Yeah, I've watched them all. I've watched the one where they play chess. I watched the one prior to that, and then Piers

16:22 Ricardo Lopes: Morgan, OK, OK, the, the one, the one where they shot it. In Romania, I mean, supposedly at his mansion, yes, yes, OK, yeah, yeah, because there was a point where Piers Morgan was confronting him with the with some of the claims that had been put forth against him, and one of them was that he used the lover boy. Method to recruit women into his sex scam thing and, and, and he turns

16:55 Breeze Oliver: to

16:55 Ricardo Lopes: Piers Morgan and says, oh, what, what's that lover boy method bullshit? You, you begged me to come on your show. You also use the lover boy method. And I was like, what the heck is this guy? He's pathetic,

17:09 Breeze Oliver: man. See, man, and that works with people who don't like, who can't catch on to that, but it's just like, it's so pathetic. It's so pathetic when I see that. And um he's he's good at escaping questions. He's good at, like, don't get me wrong, these guys are smart, man. They're not dumb. They're they're they're grifters. They are scammers, um, and that's how they make all their money. Obviously these guys have the, you know, what their crypto scams going on and they're, like you said, they're sales funnel scams going on, these, these pyramid schemes where like you said, they get guys to subscribe to their stuff and You know, and, and, and that's how they make all their money, um, and, and from my understanding have done some, some rug pulls on crypto stuff. I mean, it's just, yeah, man, I, I, I don't know, I don't know, it's just. It's sad. I, I don't know how these guys took over, um,

17:55 Ricardo Lopes: but I got to get rid of them. We got to get rid of them. And the other guy from the documentary, the Justin something guy, I mean, at a certain point he was saying, oh, I have a one-sided monogamy relationship, and I was like, what the heck are you inventing there? One-sided monogamy is not, is not monogamy. I mean that's a that's a contradiction. I mean, it's either polygyny or polyandry or polyamory, but what's that? Bullshit about one side of the monogamy, man. Yeah,

18:28 Breeze Oliver: they made that one up. Yeah, and they sell that shit, man, and nobody like, and, and they're buying people buy into it. And I'm just like, we have to. That's why I was so angry in that episode because I was like, we have these guys have to go. They have to go. They are single-handedly destroying men and and manipulating them for, for monetary value. They have no, they don't care about none of this stuff. I watched Myron and I'm like, dude, you're, you're not even the person you. You're like, you preach this way, but you're a softy and you want love just like the rest of us, man. You just try to act, we've got this tough shell on and you've sold yourself and you sold your soul. You sold your soul and you are destroying people and I want to be the antithesis to that. I want to destroy them back. I, I, I, I wholeheartedly hope that I can inspire enough guys and like I said, because I just don't see enough and I don't see enough pushback, or at least, you know. I, I, I just don't see enough pushback. It's, it's, it's, there's so many, when I, when I, even the comments that I, that we get on some of our podcasts, I, I know it's, some of these guys because I'm going to say a lot of shit that they don't agree with. Um, AND, and I'm glad, I'm glad. I want you to hear a man speak on how a man should act. And I'm not the, you know, I'm not saying I'm the, the, the, the role model for how all men should act, but I, but I, I am the opposite of what these guys talk about, and I promise you, um, I'm, I'm. Uh, I have way better relationships than they do because of it, so.

19:51 Ricardo Lopes: Yeah, and I mean another funny thing is that they are just fucking insecure, man. It's obvious that they are insecure. I mean, it's, it's like, oh my God, they have to to subjugate women and oh my God, I don't want women to go to university because They might, they might become more intelligent than I am.

20:14 Breeze Oliver: And that's the funny thing. It's like, um, what were you about to say something? Oh. That's, that's the funny thing about, um, yeah, it's like that's the new wave now. Like women shouldn't be voting and women shouldn't. I don't know if you know Andrew Wilson is. Do you know? 00,

20:27 Ricardo Lopes: oh my God, that, that guy is such a

20:30 Breeze Oliver: man, he might, he might be one of the worst, man. He might be one of the worst because he's smart enough to know what he's doing. He knows what, yeah,

20:37 Ricardo Lopes: but

20:37 Breeze Oliver: yeah,

20:37 Ricardo Lopes: but he can't open a pickle jar, so yeah, yeah,

20:40 Breeze Oliver: he can't. I don't, do you, have you seen this? Wilson. OK. Andrew Wilson is this, uh.

20:45 Ricardo Lopes: A Christian nationalist.

20:49 Breeze Oliver: Yeah, yeah, he's a Christian nationalist, so he believes, like, you know, he, he, he he had to say, yeah, well, yeah, yeah, basically,

20:54 Kerushi Drake: but go ahead just in case if anyone else doesn't know.

20:57 Breeze Oliver: What did you see the um whatever podcast where he, uh, where the woman calls his, his wife,

21:05 Ricardo Lopes: the 3 baby daddies and he, and

21:06 Breeze Oliver: he could, I mean, he spaz out. OK,

21:08 Ricardo Lopes: so he's. He snapped immediately snapped.

21:11 Breeze Oliver: That's the insecurity you're talking about. That's it. These guys can't handle the things that they dish out. And it's like, this isn't men, this isn't manly. This isn't masculinity, man. So the Andrew Wilson is, yeah, he's a Christian nationalist. He's in this red pill community now. He does. That's the funny thing too. A lot of their beliefs kind of clash because he actually is, he will, he does promote marriage, but he thinks marriage should be like traditional where the woman is home, she doesn't vote, she doesn't she doesn't work. She doesn't go to school. She cooks, cleans, and he does, and he is married and has a wife like that, but they'll preach against promiscuity, uh, promiscuity. He preaches against, you know, he's, he still goes on these podcasts and bashes women. He's been on the, you know, him and Myron Gaines, they're friends. They, he's on the Fresh and Fruit podcast, but it's funny because they all, they actually do contradict each other in a lot of the things that they believe in because he'll preach marriage while Myron Gaine talks against it. So, um, so yes, he goes on. Whatever podcast and he's he's debating Naima, I think it was. I think it was Naima, the light skinned, the light skinned girl.

22:04 Ricardo Lopes: I think that's what he's debating. No, yeah, one of them was Naima, but in that debate where she mentioned the three baby daddies,

22:12 Breeze Oliver: that was, that was the other girl. Yeah, I

22:13 Ricardo Lopes: don't know, I think her name was Charlie or something.

22:16 Breeze Oliver: Charlie, it was, yeah. So the Naima one, they handed Andrew like a pickle jar and he like he And this guy's like he's old, you know, he talks about masculinity and strength and strong, and, and he couldn't open it and he, he just like it became this huge meme and so every comment now you see like one of his videos is like just hand him a pickle jar because he like, I'll show it to you later. He just, yeah, he could not open it and then some other guy comes along, picks it out of his hand and

22:40 Ricardo Lopes: opens it immediately

22:43 Breeze Oliver: and you should see him because he's like literally on the spot coping where he's like, he's like, um,

22:48 Ricardo Lopes: oh you grinsed it all.

22:50 Breeze Oliver: Grease the top. You grease the top. He's like telling Naima, you grease the top. And she was like, dude, she was like, dude, it's just a pickle. I don't know what to tell you. And then you have, uh, but then he goes, Yeah, he's on the whatever podcast again, and he's got a, um, he's, he's arguing with some Charlie. I, I don't know her last name. I never I hadn't seen her before this. And, uh, yeah, she's, um, just out of nowhere they're just they're conversing with each other. They're having this little debate, and then he like gives her this overview of what he thinks of her and then she kind of. Shoots back and says, well, you know, you're married to a woman who has like 3 prior baby fathers and kids with different men. And it's like the moment was insanely like eye revealing because I don't think most people knew that about him. And he's like the main one who would preach against like having a woman who has been with multiple partners prior to them. Like I, I remember watching a really, I don't know if you've seen this debate, he had a really prominent debate with a guy where he was like bashing this dude for. The guy not caring that his girlfriend had like men prior to him. Um, HAVE you, have you seen that debate? Um, IT'S on the podcast. Yeah, he was bashing this guy for like, you know, he was like, you don't care if your girls had, you know, prior partners to you. Like you're a, you're a, you know, you're a cock and whatever the little words they'd like to use. And then this girl pops up out of nowhere and like just exposes him and he like he spazzs. I mean he. Yeah, and

24:12 Ricardo Lopes: the guy, and look, the guy is a complete creep because he's always talking about having relationships with 18-year-old girls, and I'm like,

24:22 Breeze Oliver: what the heck.

24:24 Ricardo Lopes: He's like, he's like 45. Why would he want to have a relationship with an 18 year old girl? I mean, what the heck? What are you doing with your life, man?

24:36 Breeze Oliver: Yeah, and, and it's funny because like I watched these guys just to kind of get a good insight into like what they believe because I have to be able to kind of push back and fight back against it. And all of them have different, they just, they all like, they don't they don't even agree with half of each other. They all just hate women. I think that's where they kind of all align on is like they all hate women, which is insane to me. I like because women I don't know, I love women. I love them so much. You guys hate them and I hate you for it.

25:01 Ricardo Lopes: Yeah, but, but, but you know that that's why there are women. I mean, some of them are feminists, some of them are not, but whatever. I mean, there are women who actually say that. I mean, there's some homoeroticism going on there because they're like always trying to impress, as I said earlier, always trying to impress the other guys and not the women because they're actually.

25:27 Breeze Oliver: That's where we get into the um into the uh Nick Fuentes, um, the gropers where they, they, I mean they hate women so much so they get accused of being gay because they do not like women so much so that they All interact with each other and it's just this big circle jerk of men circle jerk. You know, and I feel bad because it's like I know about these, you know I get it. There's like incels and black and now there's Black Pill where it's these guys who are just hopeless and don't You know, but it's, it's like, yeah, I don't know. I don't know, but, uh, yeah, so it's, it's, it, it's really funny. It's really funny how it just kind of all comes back full surface where it's like you guys hate, yeah, I made a post, funny enough, I made a post the other day, it's like you guys like hate women so much that it's pretty soon you're gonna just start you're gonna start calling it gay to hang out with your girl that's where that's where we're headed.

26:24 Ricardo Lopes: No, but, but look, even the advice they give to the, to their followers, I, I mean, it's never going to work, man. It's never gonna work. It's like, it's like even girls, uh, um, I mean, tell stories about that, about how sometimes they have dates and a guy starts. And the guy they're meeting starts saying that, oh my God, I like submissive women. I want a woman that is that doesn't work, that's always at home and we have kids and all of that. And they're like, what the heck?

27:01 Breeze Oliver: And 1940,

27:02 Kerushi Drake: buddy.

27:05 Ricardo Lopes: Yeah, I, I, I mean 1950s, yeah, like 1950s was such a good time that women, women were all medicated and they were having lobotomists to do with their hysteria.

27:22 Breeze Oliver: But that's, that's what they want to go back to. They, they'd prefer that. They'd prefer that because what happened, what happened is, um, women were unhappy and so as soon as they got freedom, they showed you that they were unhappy because they left all you, they left all of you. You shitty men, right? And now men instead of playing catch up and saying, you know what, we actually do got to change internally, they'd rather just like bash the women and force them back into those old times because everything to them is transactional. Everything is transactional. There's no substance in what they talk about.

27:50 Ricardo Lopes: Uh, NO, look, just back in December, I interviewed Nina Hartley. I mean, she's a, I don't know if you ever heard of her,

27:56 Breeze Oliver: but

27:57 Ricardo Lopes: she's, yeah, she's basically a legend in the porn industry and we were talking about also uh. And we were talking also about relationships and so on, and at a certain point she said, oh my God, nowadays I only hear, uh, uh like loser men talking about, uh, you need to have, uh, 6, 66, like 6 inches, 6 figures, and, and 6 and be 6 ft, and, and she was like, I, I mean, I'm dealing with with children here. I mean this guy. They have no emotional intelligence. They're like pathetic.

28:33 Breeze Oliver: That's what it is, just the lack of emotional intelligence. Um, YEAH, it's it's absolutely insane to me. Like I said, instead of doing the internal work, instead of doing the work that it takes to like, you know what? Yeah. 000 shit, like women are humans. My bad. I'm sorry that you're not robots, you're not slaves. I didn't realize that. OK. Yeah, let me actually change internally so that I can be a better man. For the women out here. Nope, you guys would just rather still be just shitty men, still, you know, basically enslaving women for your own like, and, and I just don't, I don't, I don't see any happiness in that. It's, it's, these guys are not happy. They're not happy. And they can have all the money in the world and they can have like all that vein, all that materialism. It's, it's, it's just a sign of your insecurity, your fear, and, uh, your unhappiness and your, and your, your deteriorating mental health.

29:18 Ricardo Lopes: Yeah, and I mean the thing they don't understand is that up till the 50s or 60s, I mean the sexual revolution was back in the, yeah, second wave feminism was back in the 70s, so the 50s, 60s. I mean, the reason why most men were married was that, was because most women wouldn't have economic opportunities. So I mean it was the only way they could sustain themselves. So I mean if now with the economic opportunities, they choose not to date a huge number of guys out there, the only thing that that tells us is that there are many men out there that were really not worth dating because they don't have anything, they don't have. Anything to offer and I mean, I'm not even focusing necessarily on the money. I mean, it's just that they are not interesting people. They are not, they are not intelligent. They are not emotionally intelligent. They, they don't have, uh, they don't know how to talk about interesting stuff. They are not, they are not funny. They are not witty. So you know what, what do they have to?

30:32 Breeze Oliver: They, they don't. And dude, you're, you're literally, you're you're like, you're pulling at my heartstrings right now. Like this is, this is exactly what happened. It's exactly what happened that you said outside of money, and the reason we venture outside of money is because once you take money out of the equation, it's funny because the men will run around the streets and put microphones up to women and being like, Oh, what do you bring to the table? But the question should actually be posed to men because outside of money, what do you bring to the table? Because, because women aren't choosing you. So when you took away that money, when you took away that economic power that men had and women finally had that freedom to choose, they stopped choosing you. That's, that's, that's a you problem, buddy, not a them problem. It just means you weren't worth it. You weren't, you, you, you, you didn't have the actual human skill sets needed to, to have a meaningful, um, um, successful relationship. And that's why, that's, that's why you struggle in the, in the women world because outside of the money, you don't have anything else to offer these women. Like you said that, like that's exactly what happened. The, the lack of. Emotional maturity, the lack of, um, the lack of, you know, charisma, the lack of humor, the lack of strength, and not just like physical strength, like mental strength, the lack of um communication skills. You guys don't know how to talk at all. You don't know how to talk to people and and and communicate and and and adapt and find compromise. You have no like resolution skills, like no, no solution skills whatsoever. Um, YOU can't solve problems.

32:02 Ricardo Lopes: No, no, no, and, and look, look, I, I'm a total nerd, so just to put that out there, so, but, but I can promise you, if you know your shit and you can talk about different topics, you will be able to have a conversation. With a woman and you will have an interesting conversation with a woman and sometimes she might be also romantically interested in you, other times not, but I mean you, you can get out there and actually talk with women quite easily.

32:40 Breeze Oliver: Yeah, I don't think it's, I don't think it's hard at all. I mean, I'm in sales. Uh, IT'S how they make, I make the bulk of my money and my whole job is adapting to people. That, that's what I, I have to, I have to talk to people. I have to be able to communicate with people. And I'll tell you what, I can go into a 45 or I can go into a 70 year old woman's house and have an hour and a half hour conversation and I can go into a. Young, you know, 18 year old kid's house and have an hour and a half hour conversation because the communication again, it's not to big myself up, it's just to say that when you lack those qualities, you know, I can't just pull out my money every time. Like, and if you do use your money to pull women, I'm not saying that's not possible, but don't be, don't be, uh, um, don't be surprised when the women you're getting with that money also don't have any substance. You know, and those are the women you may be upset with, and usually they're younger, right? Like 18 years old. These, these, these OnlyFan girls, which I don't have a. Listen, this, you know, I don't, I'm not, I don't have a judgmental bone in my body, OK? Um, YOU know, if, if she does OnlyFans, you know. This, this is what I say. If you don't want a woman who does OnlyFans, then just don't date a woman who does OnlyFans. It's really that simple. It's just, just that simple. You don't have to bash her. You don't have to degrade her, right? There's, there's a lot of women, if you walk outside right now that don't have an OnlyFans, I promise that there's a lot of them. They're the world isn't social media, and that's what these guys would have you believe. But, um, yeah, I, I, I don't know, man. Yeah,

34:05 Ricardo Lopes: no, but, but I mean, those guys even believe that BS statistic that nowadays in the US. Like 10% of young girls are doing only 10s, and I'm 10%, are you fucking insane? Where did you get that number from? I mean, and, and if you expand it to the entire world, it would be like, OK, so if half the population, 4 billion is women, 10%, it would be like 400 or 4 million. I mean, I don't, I don't, I don't even, 4 million women out there would be, are you insane? Come on. But they

34:43 Breeze Oliver: believe this. Oh, I know, I know. They all their little percentage rules, their little 80/20 rule where 20%, 80% of women want 20%. It's just, it's just all bullshit, man. It's all bullshit. And, and I can debunk every single thing they say. I can, I can debunk every single talking point that they, I've heard every single one of them. They're all based on anecdotal bullshit that, um, that maybe you've experienced at some time in your life. Sure, because humans, sometimes humans. SHITTY things for sure, but that is a human thing. That is not a woman thing. That's not a man thing. But they would have you believe, man, yeah, it just, I could go on, I could go on for days. It's, it's absolutely frustrating, um, and

35:22 Ricardo Lopes: yeah, but you know what you said earlier about the younger girls being the ones who usually have those kind of simplistic kind of, uh, wants in a man like, oh my God, I want a rich guy or whatever, something like that. Uh, I mean, it's funny. Because, uh, these guys, these menosphere guys are always talking about dating women, uh, uh, I mean, between 18 and 20 something, and I mean, it's funny because those are actually the ones that are more likely to want that kind of BS. So yeah, no, no, no wonder. But, but I mean, the other thing I was going to say is that's one of the reasons why when I was like, In my adolescence, my adolescence and early twenties, I was always dating older women because I was, I was smart enough. Already

36:18 Breeze Oliver: back to drop some of that knowledge on me, buddy, because I had to learn the hard way,

36:22 Ricardo Lopes: OK. No, no, you know that there's, I don't know who said this exactly, but there, there was a wise guy who said intelligent people learn from their own mistakes, wise people learn from the mistakes of others,

36:36 Breeze Oliver: so facts, that's, that is very, very true. Yeah, I, I, that, that's funny. I, I use it all the time because I have a, I have a, I have an older brother who made a few more mistakes than I did and I always would watch him and I'd be like, OK, I'm not doing that because I definitely don't wanna end up, you know, I don't wanna end up in that position. Um, BUT yeah, the women department, I will say, you know, I was a little, uh, I was a little, I was a little wild in my twenties, but it also Made me, you know, who I am today and why I can kind of look at some of those things and probably some of those ideologies that I probably adopted even before there was a red pill, you know, community. When I look back and say, yeah, that was like the younger me with zero experience and zero understanding of the world. And now that I'm older, yeah, I, I can call all of this out. I can call all of this out and, and call it for what it is. And, um, and, and I, I I hate that they took hold before I realized it because I didn't know what the red pill community and she doesn't, you know, that's probably why I'm a little more passionate about it, right?

37:34 Kerushi Drake: SO passionate. I love it.

37:36 Breeze Oliver: That's why she's probably a little more quiet because I kind of put her onto that. So she you know she stays in her own world a little bit. I

37:43 Kerushi Drake: do. Yeah, I do a little bit and it kind of helps with my, you know, mental health sometimes. But yeah, he he introduced me to it. We watched that documentary and I mean, my mind was absolutely blown. Um, I was familiar with Andrew Tate. I hate saying his name. Um, BUT watching that documentary, it was so crazy because I literally saw them for who they truly were just in that documentary. It was so easy to like see like what they were truly about. Um, AND it's really like I don't know. I just feel like we need more men out there who You know, are actually rooting for the women and want to have that connection with us. Because I I will say not all women hate men, so I don't understand where this war is coming from. You know. So it blew my mind that I learned that, wow, this is actually a thing, this is happening in 2026. It's so crazy to me. Yeah, that's why

38:49 Breeze Oliver: she got to see what I was so passionate about it because I had to show her the documentary. I was like, this is the stuff I'm talking about. You know, yeah, yeah, but, but

38:58 Ricardo Lopes: tell us more than Kushi, because I, I mean, I'm interested here. I mean, it's been just the guys here talking about our own perspective on the menosphere, but from a, from a female perspective, I mean, what, what do you make of those guys? And the claims they make and oh women are this, women are that, women are, you know, what do you make of that?

39:19 Kerushi Drake: Yeah, you know, like I don't like to judge people, but they're quite disgusting to me. Like when I was watching that documentary and like getting to know each and every, you know, one of those guys they were showcasing, um, I I could just see like the insecurities. I could see that they are preying on men who, um, clearly don't have like any sort of like positive, like, um, uh, positive men and role models in their lives, and that they're like grasping onto these, um, you know, what are they, creators? I don't know. Uh, WELL, unfortunately they are creating, uh, negative content. Um. And so yeah, like that, that's, that's like my take on it. They're truly like preying on, on vulnerable men, I like to say, because I feel like if you are a strong man and you, you know, stand for what you believe in, and you are healthy-ish, are we all healthy mentally? I don't know. But like, But if you, you know, um, uh, take care of your mental health, how can you let someone manipulate you, and, and change your beliefs, and change how you feel towards, um, the opposite sex? Like, I just think that, you know, they're just preying on the men who are just so vulnerable. And it's unfortunate, because then you have Like the younger generations, um, who are just trying to find their way in, in life and trying to figure out like what they believe in and how they feel, um, about the opposite sex, because they're, you know, in the dating game, um, at 1819, even in your twenties, um. And yeah, it's they're just a cancer to society is is seriously how I feel about this. Um, AND it scares me because I am a mom of three daughters. Um, MY oldest is almost 14, my middle child's 12, and then our youngest is 6. And I keep thinking like, oh my gosh, like they have to, if this continues, by the time they are ready to date, they're going to encounter. Who know these terrible men out there who are, uh, you know, feeding all of this negative content, and, um, and teaching men and boys, like the manipulative tactics, um, that they teach. Um, AND unfortunately, they're going to end up crossing paths, um, with one of them. So, so yeah, it also frightens me at the same time, so.

41:57 Ricardo Lopes: No, yeah, I mean, just personally, uh, I mean, I'm 35 and my brother is 10 years younger than me and a few years ago, he was talking about Andrew Tate and I was like, OK, OK, we have to have a serious conversation here, because, no, no, no, you're not going to keep on listening to Andrew Tate, not at all.

42:21 Breeze Oliver: They're good, man. They get you, dude, they get you with that bravado. And that, that, that masculine talk and then they, they, they bait bait and hook you and then sink you, man. It's, it'll get you and it'll play on, it will. It's, it's really good. It'll play on like certain, you know, experiences that like negative experience that you probably have had with women and women that have had with you, because don't get me wrong, like obviously the women have their side too. They got, they got their men bashers over there and understandably so. I'm not. I'm not here to discuss women because and that's kind of my thing is like I don't, I don't tell women how to behave or how to act because I'm not a woman. I'll let the women handle the women, OK? I'm here to talk to the Tates and to the to the Gaines and to the, you know, these ticky-talkies. That's my world. Um, SO, you know, uh, But, but yeah, you know, they are going to cross paths. You got to get these, they, they use those tactics and they get them young. And, uh, as a like even me, you know, I grew up without a father. So, um, a lot of us that did grow up that way, uh, our experiences came from just hands on, like, you know, trial and error, guessing testing, watching what we saw around. This, right, so if our other role models around us were, you know, players or, you know, uh, uh, you know, had the same thought, you know, thoughts as, as these guys,

43:43 Ricardo Lopes: but you, but you know what, but you know what, I don't know if you also have this kind of experience in your life, but I think, or at least this happened to me, but I mean, I grew up with both my parents at home, but uh. I, I think you can also learn a lot about women from women themselves. It's a really good point. I mean, have you, haven't you learned important lessons about women from your mother, for example?

44:13 Breeze Oliver: Yes, yes, and, and it's a great, it's a great point because I, I did find it odd. That a lot of these guys came from single mother households, like the tikkitaki guy who clearly had a pretty close relationship with his mom and who his mom was fairly against what he did. Um, BUT still he went out and had this, this thought, you know, these, these thought processes about women. And I'll tell you what, I, I, while I, while I did grow up and, you know, I wasn't the best guy in my twenties in terms of just like my treatment of women and just being a player and running around, you know, doing, doing what a young man does. Um, I, I can tell you what, like the hate that these guys harness for women, I, I didn't have that. I was my, my mom, I mean, she, she showed me, she was, she's the strongest. Person I know. And if, if it's one thing that she taught me was, was the respect and, and, and the love and to, to know what a woman is capable of. I mean, I, I, I, um, grant, you know, I credit her with like my work ethic because I've never seen nobody work that hard. So you, that's why you can't tell me all these negative aspects of, of, of women and because I, I watched a woman raise two young men and I watched her bust her ass and I watched her take on the role of a man. To make sure that we, you know, we ate. And you, so you can't just, you just can't tell me. And I, and I guarantee that's where my distaste for this community comes from because I, I've seen what women are capable of and the, the, the person, the, the people that I love the most in my life, they happen to be women. The closest people to me, the people that have always supported me, have had my back, have had, that dealt with my emotions, have stuck with me when I didn't deserve it was women, always. It was my mom, it was my girl. You know, I have my daughter now. I've never known a love like that, you know, and so, um, yeah, you know, it's just, it's just really hard. And some of these guys have daughters. Some of these guys have kids, and it blows my mind because it's like there's no way you let your daughter on anything, any, any of the guys that you talk to and let them have and let them have the same, you know, um, And let them subscribe to the same belief system that you have. There's, there's no way you let your daughter with one of those guys that subscribe to what you do. I, I, I guarantee it. I, I, I guarantee it.

46:15 Ricardo Lopes: Yeah, I, I, I mean because even at the end of the day they are promoting domestic violence, basically. I mean even, even if it's not straight out, uh, physical violence, they're promoting emotional violence, psychological violence, so. I mean, yeah, come on, would you want to have a daughter treated like that by another man?

46:35 Breeze Oliver: No, you'd go to his house and you'd beat his ass. You would, because you're going to protect your daughter. Again, more hypocrisy. That's just all this is. You would never want your daughter to be treated this way, and that's how I actually approach life is like, would I want my daughter? No, I wouldn't want her to be treated this way. Why would I steer a man in that direction?

46:53 Ricardo Lopes: Yeah, and I mean, another thing that irritates me a lot about these guys, even the main figures of the manosphere, not just some of their followers, is that they have this victim mentality. It's like, oh my God, I'm such an alpha male, but oh my God, a woman rejected me. Oh my God, feminist, really,

47:19 Breeze Oliver: really love it. That's hilarious. That's. Exactly, yeah. No, it goes back to my point is where they talk about how masculine you've got to be, but they're scared of everything. They're scared of all, they're scared of all of this. They're scared of women. Like, no,

47:32 Ricardo Lopes: they're scared of women going to university and having jobs. Come on. Are you kidding me?

47:40 Breeze Oliver: Yeah, it's like you can't handle that. Like your fragile ego mind can't handle your girl having a job and being career minded, you know, and then.

47:49 Kerushi Drake: It's so crazy because you should want to see the women thriving. No,

47:54 Breeze Oliver: because it takes away their power. It takes away it takes away, because when the women thrive, the men have to step up to the plate and have something more than money to offer them. That's where the problem came in. They just didn't have anything else. Like you talked about for the sexual revolution, men could control the household because they had the money. They had the economic power. A woman couldn't leave the house. She couldn't leave. She left, she didn't have anything, right? She didn't have a bank account. She didn't have money saved up. Even back then, they refused like women couldn't get loans, right? Like I mean, I

48:23 Ricardo Lopes: mean, even domestic violence and uh and, and there wasn't even a legal definition for

48:32 Breeze Oliver: I think till like the 90s, right? Wasn't it like till the 90s,

48:35 Ricardo Lopes: in the early 90s, yeah, in the US and the UK.

48:38 Breeze Oliver: Yeah, like

48:39 Ricardo Lopes: imagine I mean when I learned that fact, I was like, what the heck, man? The 90s,

48:46 Breeze Oliver: the 9, that was yesterday, dude. Imagine your husband. COULD actually to essay you and you couldn't go report that to the cops. They'd be like, That's your husband. That wasn't a thing. And then you wonder why women, when they got freedom, they dipped. They were like, Yeah, I'm out of here, man. That's crazy. And the women and the men and The problem is maybe men just didn't know how. I got to. I try to shoot belts with some men because maybe we just didn't know how. But now we know how. And instead of doing it, you'd rather just be lazy and be like, Nope, send the women back to the 50s and let us go back to the. I always laugh at this, like, ask your grandmas. Her and her her and her her and your grandpa, they stayed together for 40 years. Yeah, she didn't have a choice. She didn't go nowhere. This wasn't happiness, guys. That's not happiness. She was stuck. She couldn't leave, um, because as soon as they were able to, they did, you know, they're out of here. And so the the the the The solution to that would be to catch up to them, because if that's what if that's ultimately, if they've found their happy place, if a woman found her happy place in her freedom, and her freedom to be able to be educated, and her freedom to be able to be career minded, um, and and have any sort of life that she wanted to, then our Then what our goal should have been is to meet you there, to meet you at that happiness, not to drag you back down because we didn't like, because we were too lazy to find the skills that it took to, to, to, to, to meet you there. And, um, and that's what these guys are. That's what these guys are.

50:19 Ricardo Lopes: Yeah, no, for sure, for sure, man, and I mean, I was going to say like, Um, I, I guess that one of the things also that when it comes to the bad advice these guys give other men is that look, I think I'm going to repeat myself a little bit here, but first of all, You need to learn to talk with people. I mean just people. It doesn't even matter if it's men or women, you need to learn to talk with people. I mean you can't just be 24/7 in your basement or your bedroom and just expect by osmosis from listening to fucking Andrew. It's to get communication skills or whatever. I, I mean, you, you have to learn to talk with people. You have to be an interesting person. So I mean, the more you learn, the more interesting you are, the more experiences you have, the more interesting you are because you have more to talk about. And I'm, and I mean, if, if you know your stuff. And you have good communication skills and you're, and because of that you are confident when speaking. I mean, believe me, that takes you a long way.

51:37 Breeze Oliver: It goes a long way

51:40 Ricardo Lopes: when it comes when it comes, when it comes to getting dates, to getting partners and all of that, just that alone.

51:47 Breeze Oliver: Yeah. No, literally. And you know, I hate to be, and I hate to be anecdotal, but it's just like they'll, you know, I got, you know, they're going to tell you that you have to look a certain way, be a certain height, have all this money. Man, I got a 5'4 friend who probably bags more women than I ever have in my life. Like he has no problem doing it. Guess what? Because he's super confident. He's he's charming, he's funny, and he knows how to talk to people. It just, you know, and he's a sales guy. Like he's he's, he's incredible what he does and Women, they don't care. And I'm not saying there aren't women out there that care about height. There are, but I promise you that's not the end all be all. And it's not, you know, if you ask a woman what she wants and what she looks for in a guy, most of the time, you know, take away some of the younger girls who just haven't experienced life yet. You ask a woman of mature of age, you know what she wants out of a guy, a lot of it is going to be, um, very, uh, non-physical things.

52:44 Ricardo Lopes: No.

52:45 Kerushi Drake: Yeah, I agree with

52:46 Ricardo Lopes: that. No, for sure, for sure. I, I mean, as I said earlier, I mean, I, I'm a complete nerd. Yeah. And I, and I've been successful in dating and so you mean, no, because at a certain point, I don't know exactly when, but I started noticing that just by me talking about the things that I that I know and because I was talking about things that I know I was always confident. Talking about them. Suddenly, everyone was interested in me and I was like, What the heck? What the heck is happening here?

53:23 Breeze Oliver: You're an interesting person. It's like, yeah, and sometimes it doesn't even matter what the subject matter is. If you're confident in that because you know it and you make it interesting, there's things that she probably doesn't care that I know how to do. But when I started explaining it to her and I'm like, show her the process, like, it's interesting. It's, it's, it's cool. I'm confident I'm doing it and I'm good with the, if I'm good at it and the output, like women, they love that stuff. They love that stuff. And yeah, I don't know. I don't I don't think it's as hard as they make it to be. I don't think it's as hard as they make it to be. I understand there's a certain some skill sets required, right? The confidence, right, to be able to not be feared, to be able to take rejection, because it's going to happen. It's going to happen, right? But the worst that you get is a no, you know. But, but if you're if you're the harassment or the bashing or the, you know, I see it all the time where a guy will holler at a girl and she says, I'm interested. And he's like, Oh, that's why you're a bitch anyways. And it's like, Dang, dude, like shit, it's OK to get rejected. Like accept the rejection, you know, and then move accordingly next, right? Again, back to sales. It's like, I lose sales for sure. And the things that I do wrong, I just I just learn from them and then try a different route the next time. And then if it works the next time, that's what I continuously do. And then I build upon that. And that's all it is. It's just about like it's just about growing internally and then finding a partner. You know, once you find a partner, you're both be enabled to both grow together and internally, and then you encourage each other and support each other to do the same. These things. Things are not hard. They're not hard to do. It's not all this like go outside, work out, get a six-pack, you got to have a bunch of money, you got to show, you got to have a bunch of women around you. Like all of that stuff is vain. It's vain. And the women you pull with that type of, they're vain too. They're, they lack substance and, um, and you don't even want to build with those, with, with, with anybody who that's

55:06 Ricardo Lopes: all they want. Look, I, I can tell you. Uh, BEING at a bar, I, I, I had situations where I was at bars talking about philosophy and I beat guys with Ferraris.

55:22 Breeze Oliver: I mean, I believe it. I'm telling you, dude, yes, intelligence and, and just like having some interesting talking points. I guarantee, yeah,

55:29 Ricardo Lopes: no, no, no, because just, just a guy, just a guy coming in and bragging, oh my God, I have a. Most of the girls are like, What the heck? What is this?

55:42 Breeze Oliver: It looks pretentious, dude. You look arrogant. That arrogant, like, yeah, their confidence is actually just arrogance. Yeah, and that's

55:49 Kerushi Drake: a turnoff for a lot of women. It really is.

55:53 Breeze Oliver: And for the ones that it does attract, those are the ones you don't want to probably build with. They got some learning to do, right?

55:59 Ricardo Lopes: Yeah, but, but that's, that's the other thing, right? I mean, if, if you present yourself honestly and genuinely to women. I mean, even if most of them, and most of them will reject you, that's not a problem at all. I mean, they're not wasting your time, right? Because the ones that are not going to reject you are the ones with whom you can have a good relationship.

56:23 Breeze Oliver: Yes, it's like we talk about this all the time, like people will be so mad at preferences. We see this all the time, and sometimes I'll see some like crazy preference, right, where the girl's like, I'm not going to date a guy unless he's, he makes, you know, 50. 1000 $0 a month. And the response to that is always like outraged. And I'm just like, that's her preference. If it doesn't apply, let it fly. If you're not the guy that's going to make $50,000 a month, then y'all just won't work out. And it's OK to not like that not be who you're attracted to and her not be attracted to you. If you have some crazy preference, you know it may it may minimize your pool a little bit, but at least that pool that you've minimized it to are people that are going to align with what you, that's what you want. You don't want this widespread of like, Oh, I can just you know Whoever, and then you're trying to figure out what you like. And that's why self-awareness is so key because it's like if you know yourself, if you know your likes, that's the one thing they don't preach is self-awareness and discernment, right? Because a lot of times we will ignore the things that we are not going to like later on for something shallow, right? A pretty face, a nice body, whatever. And instead of just having some discernment and being like, OK, you're hot, but I know these are things I probably don't want to deal with. And it doesn't mean it's a bad thing. It doesn't mean you're bad for. Having those qualities doesn't mean I'm bad for not wanting them. It just means we shouldn't be together because we won't align on that. And that's OK. There's nothing wrong with that. That's the crazy part. There's nothing wrong with that. Go find go find the person that aligns with your, we just had the episode where the guy wanted like fifty-fifty on his first date, right? And so it was just like, it's going to be hard for him to find that person who will do it, but it's like, stop going on dates with girls who won't do it because you're going to be mad at the end. It's OK to have that preference, but then find that pool of women who are OK with that preference and at least you're Building from a place of, OK, we at least align on like one of the values that I have. It's not that hard, you know, I just, I, it's not, it's not,

58:11 Ricardo Lopes: yeah, yeah, yeah, but you know, sometimes, particularly when we're young in our early twenties or something, and we have, we are lucky enough for a hot girl to fall for us and we go, and we know, and we know, OK, this is going to go bad, this is going to end bad, but, but, but it's to them. And you just jump headfirst into the empty pool because you can't resist it.

58:38 Breeze Oliver: And guess what? You're going to have to learn. You're going to have to learn the hard way. We are all, we can all be hardheaded and it's going to happen, and you might do it multiple times. We've been learning the hard way since we were a kid, right? Your mom told you, Don't touch the stove, and you've touched the stove and you burned yourself. Guess what? You won't do it again. But you had that curiosity inside of you. So yes, it happens. Hot girl comes along, you know, she's the devil, but you know. But you know, the devil might be worth it tonight. OK? And that's OK, right? But again, it's just like, again, growing from that and learning from that. But if you keep on choosing that, don't get mad at your choice. Don't get mad at women for your choice. That's where this, this, that's the other part is just the red pill lacks. The red pill community and Manosphere have zero accountability. Nothing is your fault. Nothing is a man's fault. Everything is a woman's fault. They take zero accountability and that goes back to your victim, uh, mentality comment. If you're a victim and, and like I, I'm a strong accountable accountability person like I, I'm, it's, it's very few things that I say like obviously there are uncontrollables sure that that happened to us, but I, I, you know, a lot of things that happen in your life are because you set something in motion, whether good or bad, you know, it doesn't matter, but a lot of times again in choosing partners is that lack of discernment, um, or, or. Just your, um, overall not understanding of maybe what your wants and needs are personally. And, um, but there's never any accountability, right? You'll choose somebody who may not be good for you, and it's that person's fault for not being good for you instead of saying, well, I probably should have just made a better choice for somebody who's good for me. And that's what they'll preach. And that's like that lack of accountability. Oh, that, that's your downfall. That is your immediate downfall. It just, it, it, yeah.

1:00:19 Ricardo Lopes: No, and the other stupid thing is like they're always talking about how all women are hypergamous and all women are all women are gold diggers, but then, They go for the gold diggers and I'm like, what? I mean, you're you're complaining that women are gold diggers, but you, but you want to come to a bar with a luxury cars and and flashy clothes and being just a dick and you're going to attract the Gold diggers and then you complain that all women. What the heck?

1:00:56 Breeze Oliver: It's back to the hip hop, back to the contradicting things. It's like I say that all the time. It's like you would call women gold diggers and then you flash your money to get women who are, they are the gold diggers. Congrats, you played yourself, dummy. I don't understand. It's just, it's, yeah, you. Discernment. Your, your decision, uh, your decision making sucks. It's you. It's not anybody else. You are the common denominator. If your relationships keep failing, maybe a few of them could be like outside of your control, but if, if you keep having the same thing happen to you over and over again, yeah, I'm a strong belief in that. Yeah, probably common denominator theory here going on. So.

1:01:35 Ricardo Lopes: Yeah, and, and I mean also because I think that if I remember correctly, this probably came out last year or something that someone, an evolutionary psychologist or someone like that studied this. I mean there's this phenomenon of a phenomenon of assortative mating where people tend to prefer partners that are similar to them in terms of interests, in terms of personality traits and all of that. And another thing that they found is that Actually, people also tend to date people that are more or less on the same er socioeconomic er stra stratum. So I mean, I I I mean uh like poor people tend to date poor people, middle class people tend to date middle class people and so on and so forth. So, so I mean even the hypergamous thing, I mean like. No, I mean stats

1:02:32 Breeze Oliver: never back up. Yeah, I look up stats all the time and I'm I'm a very detailed oriented person in terms of like how I look up statistical data. It's not just like, oh, I, you know, look up some stats that kind of confirm my bias. I look up the stats to find those stats, and the stats of the stats of the stats, right? To just kind of get a deeper meaning. Yeah, they never back up with these guys. Like they, they, like you were saying, a lot of it is socioeconomical where um people will date within their general. Area, right? Immediate area because so if you live in a lower income area, typically you're probably going to end up with a lower income partner simply because you lack, you typically lack the, the, the transportation to venture out. You're not going to meet people. Obviously we have the internet now, but like essentially, more than likely you're going to probably find somebody within your community that you end up dating. And um and the numbers will literally reflect as such. There's there's no stats that back up, um. This whole, the whole 80/20 thing where 80% of women go after 20% of men. There's there's that's

1:03:30 Ricardo Lopes: true. That's just not true. That's just dating ga BS. I mean, that's, that just happens on dating apps. I mean just, just ditch the damn dating apps and go on the street.

1:03:46 Breeze Oliver: Well, and that's that's what I would say that they project so much of that online internet world into the real world, which is why I'm like, and I said it in that manosphere where I was like, go outside, go outside and touch some grass, man. Go outside and meet some people. Your next door neighbor probably isn't the only fans model who wants men for money, right? You know what I mean? More than likely. The girl you meet at Kroger's, or I don't know, these are grocery stores. I don't I don't know if you're familiar with Kroger's, but you know Walmart or the girl you meet there probably isn't reminiscent of you or a representative of the girl you met on Tinder who has her ass and her breasts out. You're right. It's probably just a normal girl who just wants probably the same things you want.

1:04:33 Ricardo Lopes: And look, it's even easier than that because people or guys think that they, oh my God, I have to go through the anxiety of going up to a woman on the street and asking her this and that. No, actually you can do something that is much easier. You can. Just meet friends of friends or be friends with women or be or befriend women from your school, your university, your workplace, or, or ask your female friends to see if they have any single friends, yeah.

1:05:18 Breeze Oliver: Funny, it's, it's, I know it's. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it blows my mind, right? Like word of mouth goes a long way. Um, BUT, um, yeah, to kind of piggyback off of that, uh, I was, I was debating this guy on, you know, he's a red pill guy, and he was, he, he subscribes to this thought that like, you know, women, um, they, uh, they all, you know, they go to the club every weekend and they're always partying, and that's, you know, they meet men in the club and that's where they're looking for men at so. They're always, you know, trying to date bad boys. Like I know you've heard this, like, oh, they always go after the bad boys and all this, right? Like, of course, stats don't reflect that. Actually, like people that, you know, with, with some sort of like bad boy history actually fare pretty badly in the dating world. Women actually don't prefer that. Stats will back that up. Um, BUT outside of that, um, When when I when I kind of started to look into like marriages that last the longest, where people typically meet their partners at, yeah, clubs was pretty low on the list. I mean, it's usually like friends of friends, church, or some sort of religious gathering. Um. Some sort of like social group that you might be in. Um, LIKE there was like 10 other things that like way before it was like, oh, women going after bad guys or people that may not be up to par party people, stuff like that.

1:06:35 Ricardo Lopes: Another thing, another thing, go to places where there are more women than men.

1:06:42 Breeze Oliver: Yeah, that's a good idea.

1:06:43 Ricardo Lopes: You have better chances there. I mean, like if you're going to university, go study social science, go study psychology. I mean, it's like, uh, nowadays in psychology it's like 60 or 70% women and 40 to 30% men, so I've

1:07:03 Breeze Oliver: done it, right? Look, look who, look who's look who's. Kind of understand humans and who's not, right? Like you wonder

1:07:08 Ricardo Lopes: why, and not just that, I mean, learning psychology is very useful, but not just that, but because there are many more girls than boys, than men. I mean, your dating chances are much

1:07:24 Breeze Oliver: higher. Yeah, and college is a great place to meet women. I probably met 4 girlfriends in college. And all of them were actually like long term girlfriends, like really good, actually pretty good relationships, just me being a dickhead. But you have a friend, and we had to tell her kind of like, you know, because I think she was just having problems meeting guys online and not to call anybody out

1:07:46 Kerushi Drake: using the dating apps, Tinder, Bumble, etc.

1:07:51 Breeze Oliver: But your advice to her Um, was like, go out to social groups

1:07:58 Kerushi Drake: social groups. I told her, and I think this is also so important when you're trying to meet a partner and a long term partner, that is um Go to places that like you actually enjoy. Like any like hobbies that you may have, um, that of course have the opposite sex, right? So like if you, if you have like a girly hobby, like you're, yeah, exactly, you're not like maybe like if you go to like a coed like a co ed one, but I think that it is so much fun like getting into like The atmosphere that you enjoy and you love and you want to do, like, long term, and like finding a potential partner there that like, because you have like the same interests already. Like, you know, something in common. So, and it's something fun that you could end up doing together. But I feel like that's like my favorite. Um, OF course, I haven't met anyone in many years. We've been together. For 8 years. But it's my favorite piece of advice to offer to like my single friends who struggle. Do they listen to me? No. They're still staying in the house, of course, and on these dating apps, hoping that somebody will magically come along that ticks all of their boxes. Um, BUT I think that it would work if you just get out there and, uh, you know, you, uh, meet someone. Coffee shops, I think are really cute. A lot of people go to coffee shops, so you're bound to meet somebody, I think.

1:09:27 Ricardo Lopes: No, and look, if you're a nerdy guy like me. I don't do this because I'm actually kind of a hermit. I only go out twice twice a year or something like that. But, but, but, but, but, but look, if you are a nerdy guy, just go to a book club or something like that because 90%, 90% will be girls and women, and they will, and they will, and, they will all be like. Oh my God, the man here is so cute.

1:10:01 Kerushi Drake: You're already deemed cute and popular. Yes, I love that. But it's just

1:10:05 Breeze Oliver: good advice. It's just good advice. I'm like, yeah, you don't have to. Again, stepping out, touching some grass, because you're going to find that that social media world, sure, there's women that exist and men that exist in that world that are that way in public, but just going out. You'll see that a lot of this stuff is just online. It's not the real world. Meet people the normal way. I promise you. I promise you. And yes, like you said, you're going to get rejected. There's going to be rejection, right? And that's OK because it just means that person wasn't for you. You want you want the rejection. So it just narrows down who works for you and who doesn't. And uh and and discernment and knowing, you know, what's good for you and what isn't. It's, it's not hard, it's not hard. These guys make it hard, these guys make

1:10:46 Ricardo Lopes: it

1:10:46 Breeze Oliver: impossible.

1:10:47 Ricardo Lopes: Yeah, and and even look, even the rejection rate, you can reduce it quite a lot if you're smart with how you approach things because I mean, you, let's say you go to a new activity. I don't know, you go, you go to a book club, you go to church, you go to yoga, I mean, whatever. And, and, and then you start uh meeting new women and start learning about them, and then you get to know, they get to learn that some of them are this and that kind of interests in common with you. And then one thing that you can do is start talking with them and then, oh, you know, uh, would you like to talk more about this later? I mean, we could meet at the coffee or at the cafe or something like that, at the restaurant. I mean, and you start building from there and, and you already have that basis of common interests, common activities, probably common values. So I mean the chance, the chances of rejection go down drastically. So you would just have to be smart with how you approach things, you know. Yeah,

1:11:58 Breeze Oliver: yeah, and it doesn't have, and it doesn't have to be a quantity thing. You have to shoot your shot at 300 women and hope that one like just narrow it down to what probably is going to work for you, you know. And again, these are the things that they don't preach, but I I again, why we kind of started what we did, because yeah, we want people to just go like see how easy it is and see how basic it really all could be. And I get it. Like you know I don't want to, I don't want to, you know, single anybody out. I know that there's things that you know that happen in relationships. We all go through our trauma, we all go through triggers and we maybe thought we picked the right person and they end up being a monster. That does happen. I totally understand that. Um, YOU know, so I don't want to single those people out. Um, HOWEVER, you know, uh, outside of, outside of those, you know, dating doesn't have to be so hard. And even within those, once you kind of, you know, before you go back out and seek a partner, get healed first, you know, find, find your way back to peace, peace and, and, and, and, and positive mental health, and then get back in the, you know, you can get back in the dating world. And now you know. You know what to look out for and stuff, but you know, to just to cast this, this generalizing net over all women because you decided to flash a bunch of money to gold diggers and not all women are gold diggers.

1:13:14 Ricardo Lopes: Shoot,

1:13:15 Breeze Oliver: dude, jeez.

1:13:17 Ricardo Lopes: I, I mean, I mean, that's why, and this is another, this is another part of the manosphere, the pickup artists. I mean, the pick up. Artistry is just BS. I mean, why should, why should it work? Why do you expect it to work if you go out on the street and approach a random, a fucking guest, random woman, and she doesn't know you from nowhere and like, and like a random dude coming to her, Oh, I find you pretty. Could you give me your number? What?

1:13:50 Breeze Oliver: Yeah, yeah, that's like say you don't know women without saying you don't know women, right? Like that's not how to approach women. And that's another thing I got, I got I got into it with a guy and I was just like, you just like y'all don't know how to approach people. I just like approach is everything. First of all, know who to approach. But then just how you approach people is, it's so much. And I thought, I mean, outside of just picking up women, just relationships in general. If you have an issue with something, if you're upset about something, like approach will change the the the course of how any conversation goes. And if you don't understand approach and you don't know approach, Again, you're, you're, it's, it's not the person that has the problem, it's you. It's you not understanding how to approach people and in a respectful way, right? Like it's, it's not hard to that's what it was because I got into it with a guy who was telling, who was basically made this overgeneralized comment. Um, A friend of mine had posted that he met his girl. Through DMs. LIKE she liked a picture of his. He DM'ed her and said, Hey, you know, it was a cute little post he posted on Mother's Day. And it actually weirdly went viral, but it went viral kind of for the wrong reasons. And it was a bunch of guys basically saying like, Yeah, that doesn't work. That never works. That might have worked for you. And the main kind of uh consistent um Uh, rhetoric that you saw in this was that nowadays when you message a woman, um, she's just going to post it for content. And I thought this was the most asinine take from this because I can guarantee you 100% that. There's no world where you approach a woman respectfully and maybe her DMs or maybe her inbox and she posts you for content. The posts that get posted for content from women are usually from some disrespectful man who who's he's either sent an unsolicited private pic or is just being insanely vulgar or something like that. If a woman were to post a man approaching her in a respectful way, they would probably tear her up for that because most people would be like, Oh, he sounds like. He was actually being pretty respectful. And so this crazy narrative that they were running with that like men or women will just post you in for content. I'm like, that doesn't happen unless you unless you're being an asshole in her inbox. If you have approached a woman, and it was crazy to me that I had to explain to people that your approach mattered. It blew my mind and I was arguing with people for this. Why am I arguing with you that approaching women respectfully will not get you posted for content? You might get rejected. But there's not women out there just posting the respectful guy in her inbox. That doesn't happen. It's, it's insane

1:16:25 Ricardo Lopes: to me. No, no, look, I have a very funny story because, uh, I, I, I'm friends with a few sex workers and one of, one of them told me once, oh, you know, I got, uh, there was this one time where a guy tried to seduce me because he got. My number on the website and he tried to seduce me, sending me a dick pic, and I'm like, dude, I'm seeing

1:16:53 Breeze Oliver: dick. I'm seeing

1:16:54 Ricardo Lopes: dicks the entire time.

1:16:57 Breeze Oliver: Stop doing it. It has a 0% success rate, man. No,

1:17:01 Ricardo Lopes: no, no, no, but, but in her specific case it was even dumber because she said, I'm seeing dicks the entire time. That's what I do. What

1:17:12 Breeze Oliver: the heck? That is hilarious. That is hilarious. Yeah. And it's so funny. It's so funny. Yeah, and it's like, do I have to tell men not to send unsolicited dick pics? Like why do we not know that? Why do we not know that? The amount of women, and the amount of women will tell you that that's happened to us, probably, I would say like 95% of women have at some point received an unsolicited dick pic. And that blows my mind that I know for a fact it has a 0% success rate and that it still happens. And I don't know if these guys would just shoot it to 100 women and hope that one respond, but I just, I really want to meet the guy who did it and a girl responded and said, Oh, I love that you said that to me unsolicited. What's your name? They've never seen it work. That's insane

1:17:56 Kerushi Drake: to me. I've never seen that work either.

1:17:59 Breeze Oliver: Nobody wants that. Nobody wants that. The girls, even when you're dating, they barely want that sometimes. Even when she does like you.

1:18:08 Kerushi Drake: This might sound extreme, but a random doing it, it's like borderline essay to me. I did not ask for that. It's almost as if like I keep hitting the mic. I'm so sorry. I'm I'm trying to stay still. Um, BUT it's almost as if, like, you know, I, I don't know, like maybe you're in the, the parking lot at a restaurant and someone yells like, hey, and then you turn around and then he just like whips it out. Like that's how I always looked at it.

1:18:39 Breeze Oliver: So. Yeah.

1:18:40 Kerushi Drake: Like you didn't ask for it. That is just

1:18:43 Breeze Oliver: so sad. But thesepiabars with their lack of approach and lack of understanding of approach, and then wonder why that you have a 0, like your shot, you shoot 0% from the field. It's really not rocket science. And maybe I'm just like, so, I don't know. Maybe I maybe I need to be, I guess, a little more patient with people and a little more understanding. I just feel like these are things that you should just like automatically know, but I don't know, man. The more it happens, sometimes I'm like, OK, maybe I'm just the, maybe

1:19:12 Ricardo Lopes: I'm the no, no, no, but, but, but, no, but look, I, I mean, uh, I, I, I talked with, um, An evolutionary psychologist once on the show and er he has, he's been doing work on why dating fails in modern societies and he has a very interesting insight into it because because I mean one of the main factors he points to was that, er, I mean, we haven't really evolved or even we don't even have a. A culture of people knowing how to really date because for 99% of human history, basically marriages were arranged, so you know, yeah, so you know it was basically people's families. The guy's family and the girl's family basically coming together and arranging the marriage. So I mean for for 99.9% of human history, neither guys nor girls had to learn anything about attracting someone of the opposite sex,

1:20:28 Breeze Oliver: you know, that that's, that's really interesting and it makes quite a bit of sense, yeah, um.

1:20:36 Ricardo Lopes: Uh, I mean, and the, and the other thing is, I, I guess that's also one of the reasons why women, er, if they really want to, but I mean the issue that women usually get is that the. Most of the guys out there, as we've already said, are not really that interesting, so that's the issue that they have when it comes to dating. But I guess that the reason why it's easier in general for women to get a a partner than the other way around is because women. ARE actually taught from a very early age to communicate, to express their feelings and all of that. So you know, they, they already have an upper end when it comes to those kinds of social interactions,

1:21:26 Breeze Oliver: right? And my thing with that is that because they get, they get told this, um. The the men will say that like, Oh, we were always told to hold our feelings in, but it's also the men that will diss you if you show your feelings. So it's like we're our own demise and somehow women are to blame for that, which is where I really find an issue at is that um and that's the part that just confuses me because I'm like, you guys will say that you'll say that. We like, uh, we, we don't have a space to, to, to be vulnerable and they tell us to be tough and they, but then you then you Then you will bash your friend or your homie or anything like that if they ever express any sort of feelings or any sort of like, it's like, Oh man, man up, man up. And it's like then you can't you can't have your foot on both sides of the fence. You either are for you know men being a little bit more vulnerable, showing some emotion and being more confident in that, or you want to keep on preaching to hold it. All in, which just goes back into and plays back into our depression rates and our suicide rates and our deterioration of mental health. It's the same thing that you preach, and then you tell, and then again, you say that, you know, oh well, men can't men can't express anything. They can't express anything because you will demonize them for it. They can't express anything because their male counterparts will make them feel less than a man for it. And that's not women's fault. That's men's faults. That's men's fault because my girl, and no girl I've ever talked to has ever told me to man up when I've showed my feelings. That's never happened from a girl. It's only, it's only happened from men. And so that's where I hold it in at. But guess what? It plays to my detriment. And so again, how do we blame women for that? It blows my mind. It's just another wild, just another wild take that these guys will preach to you, that you can't show emotion. Yeah, because you won't allow them to. Because you tell them not to, because you tell them it's a weakness to do it, and I tell them it's the opposite. I think vulnerability and I think empathy are also are all strengths. I, I, I wholeheartedly believe that

1:23:41 Ricardo Lopes: confidence, and the thing is they say. You shouldn't show emotion, but then one of the main complaints that you hear from women when relationships don't work is that they say that the guy was not emotionally available. Yeah,

1:23:58 Breeze Oliver: yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah. Yep. And um and it's like, and instead of a man taking that and saying, you know what, I want to improve myself, you'll find a way to make it her fault. And um and I feel I understand that because as humans, ego is going to take over, right? And we don't want to be blame. We don't want to be to blame for anything. But that is those are lack of leadership skills. And that's these guys will, they will present as leaders and they lack all of the basic skills of what a leader is. They lack all of them. Um, YOU know, and so, and so you're following somebody who is the opposite, um, of what a, I won't say they're not leaders, they're bad leaders. And they're following bad leaders. They're following bad leadership, you know, people that are and

1:24:45 Ricardo Lopes: and that's, and that's the thing, right, because I, I mean back in even the 2000s, I mean, what would be our role models, a guy like, I don't know whereriorn from the Lord of the Rings, I mean,

1:24:58 Breeze Oliver: yeah,

1:24:58 Ricardo Lopes: yeah. A guy, a guy who is like competent, strong, honest, humble, kind. He was a kind guy. Like you can, you can be kind, believe it or not, you can be

1:25:13 Breeze Oliver: kind. You're allowed to be kind to people. It's OK, I promise. You don't have to be. Yeah, they, they, that's exactly what they do. They, uh, they, they use the, the masculine traits, but they use them for negative, right? They use them for negative things. They tell you to be confident, but they, they use it, they use it for arrogance. They tell you to be, you know, dominant, but they use it for control. And you can be dominant but not controlling, right? You can be the head of something and, and, and, and be um understanding and that's, that's the problem is that they don't understand these leadership skills and how to convert them into um uh effective positive leadership. Um, AND, and that's, that's, I think, where, where the, the, where it gets misconstrued and where people look at an Andrew Tate and think he's a leader, but don't realize he's a bad leader. He leads you to your demise, not too great, he doesn't lead you to greatness.

1:26:09 Ricardo Lopes: Yeah, by the way, talking about healthy masculinity, I actually wrote down here a list of traits that, I mean, they just came to mind when I was thinking about these, the traits I think that Uh, healthy, should be attached to healthy masculinity and let me just, let me just tell you guys them and then tell me what you think about them and if you would, if you would add something else or so, uh, honest, responsible. Humble, virtuous, respect, respects commitments, kind, empathetic, stands up against corrupt power, protects the vulnerable, learns from his mistakes, respects, respects people who are wiser, treats people in general with respect, and only is violent when strictly necessary.

1:27:07 Breeze Oliver: I love that. I mean, you, you bodied it. You bodied it. I would, um, maybe you touched on this, maybe you said this, uh, because you were you were just, you were knocking it out the park group just now. Um, THE one I would add, if you didn't say this, um, is that, um. And there's obviously a shortened version of this, but I want to explain it more, um, leaders, people think that as a leader, your job is to just lead people to their growth. Leaders also have to understand you have to grow too. So I would say also self progression, um, understanding that even as a leader you have more to learn and you can still grow. You just because you lead people, you can learn from the people you're leading just as they're learning from you. If you're leading people and you know that again, I, I run a business and, uh, anytime my employees do something that is, uh. That's like unsatisfactory or that's not good for business. I, I, well, obviously, you know, they get reprimanded and things happen, but I also internally say, what could I did to better manage this person so that they didn't make that mistake in the first place. Because there was something I lacked there too. There was something I missed and maybe there's maybe I exhausted all options and this person is just, you know, that's they were going to do it regardless. Maybe. But there's also a chance that there was something I missed and if I would have done it, this bad thing wouldn't have happened. And that me as a leader says, I have an opportunity for growth in this as well. Because, um, because if I don't, and this could keep happening, and if it keeps happening, that means it is me. It probably is something I'm doing. Um, SO yeah, that that's if you didn't talk about any sort of self-progression or just like growth, I would say I would, I would only add that one thing because I think people think as leaders, you know, you're just helping others grow. No, you got to grow too.

1:29:02 Ricardo Lopes: Yeah, and the thing is, I, I think that every single aspect that I mentioned here can also apply to women, actually. I mean, I, I mean, I mean it's it's not, it's not that women can't be those, these things. I mean, actually, they can, and I think they should as well. So yeah, I mean, you, you, you know, it's, I mean, maybe. You can say that it would manifest in slightly different ways between men and women, but I mean we can have these same traits in men and women, and I think they're just good human traits to have. They,

1:29:45 Breeze Oliver: they are good human traits, and the one thing I will, will kind of add to that is, yeah, obviously you kind of expect certain standards for women, um. And, and men are, men are probably going to not like me for this, but if you're going to call yourself a leader. Then you are also responsible for the people you lead. And if you're leading women, then you're responsible for them attaining those traits just the way you are. So if you don't set a good example, and I'm not saying women shouldn't take it upon themselves to have those traits, you're right. That is just a human, that's just good human nature, right? But at the same time, Um, if I'm not an example of those traits and I expect the women around me or the people I lead around me to exude those traits the same, then that's, that, that's, uh, that's my problem. Like that's a problem for me. That's me not doing, uh, that's me not like basically preaching what or, or, or living what I preach. And so I find that women tend to be reactionary. Like a lot of times when you go into a relationship, when you're in a relationship. Women adopt like a good, when when they're with a good man, they tend to adopt a lot of his habits and they tend to a lot of adopt a lot of his ways, you know, and don't get me wrong, it goes both ways. A man can do the same for a woman, but typically a man that's like the dominant head of the household, women will start to kind of adopt certain personality traits that he has, certain, you know, certain habits that he has, right? If you're um a disciplined person who wakes up every morning, you know, you'll kind of Start to see that like your partner's like, Oh, he's really disciplined. I kind of want to be like, do a little bit better in that world. You know, if you're, you know, if you're honest, if you're humble, if you're, if you show strength, because what happens is when you do those things, like if, if I show those traits, and because I have those traits inside of me, I see a lot of success in life and I see a lot of positive relationships, people will look at that and say, oh man, like every time I see him, like he's successful and he has positive traits. What is he doing? And then people start to follow that. So when I'm setting that example, I'm also setting it for my girl, or any woman. And so, because I know that they're reactionary, when they see that, they're like, Oh, you know, when he has, I really love that in him. I want to I want to also portray those things as well. So a lot of times, yes, I, I We're all responsible for having, you know, good thing, you know, for, for approaching life in a positive manner and, and obtaining the things needed to treat everyone with respect and be just a good general human. But at the same time, if somebody's gonna deem themselves a leader, you are absolutely responsible for the people you lead, and you're absolutely responsible. For instilling those my mom was responsible for instilling certain values in me as a child and she was my leader and I look at this, I look at that the same way as the people that I lead. I am responsible for instilling the traits that I think are good for growth, um, inside of you and if I, if you aren't doing that, then I am failing you.

1:32:37 Ricardo Lopes: Yeah, and look, even when you were talking about leadership, I mean we have many examples of men throughout history who were leaders or we could consider to be leaders, and they were not that stereotypical brutish men or I mean you have people like Jesus, you have people like Gandhi, you have people like Martin Luther King. I mean some of the nicest, kindest people who ever lived, and I mean they were proper men and they were leaders in their own sort of way, and, and everyone respected them.

1:33:20 Breeze Oliver: Yep, so yeah, if you look at like, you know, I'm a big, I'm a big, you know, I'm big into uh. Uh, I'm a big follower of like stoicism and, and, and, and, um, and stoic philosophy and uh a lot of the leaders in stoicism were. Just good, you know, good, virtuous men with temperance, you know, and, and they weren't these, you know, some of them, you know, some of them were generals, sure, and some of them were writers, some of them were just artists. You know, a lot of, you know, kings respected these men, you know, um, so yeah, that, that's, you, you can be a leader and you can attract people, uh. Without all that physical other mumbo jumbo stuff. It helps sometimes, don't get me wrong, like you know if you look like Achilles and you and you also have some leadership skills, it probably works in your favor, but it's not necessary and not needed. And um and certainly and certainly not needed to attract people, not just women, just attracting people to you and people that are wanting to be around you, which ultimately leads to your happiness and good relationships with women.

1:34:27 Ricardo Lopes: No, look, sometimes I say, I, I don't know if you ever heard of that Greek philosopher. He, he was sort of a weird guy but also a very interesting guy. Diogenes, the one who lived in a barrel in

1:34:41 Breeze Oliver: the middle of. No,

1:34:43 Ricardo Lopes: no, look, look, if, if, if, if, if a guy can be like Diogenes, like dirt poor. A beggar living on the street, but have female friends. I mean you have no excuse. I mean, I mean that that guy, this is just an anecdote. It has, it was never confirmed historically, but as this. ANECDOTE that Alexander the Great, when he conquered Greece, went to meet Diogenes because Diogenes was very famous, and he was like, Oh, what do you want from me? And Diogenes was like, Oh yeah, get the well away from me because you're, you're blocking this,

1:35:33 Breeze Oliver: my son. Yep, I love that story. I love that story.

1:35:36 Ricardo Lopes: I I'm. That, that, that guy right there is a fucking alpha male. I mean, I got, I got, I got a guy who can turn to a guy who can turn to Alexander the Great, and I get the hell away from you.

1:35:52 Breeze Oliver: I mean, I love that. I love that story. I love that story. Yeah, he turns up and says, get out, you know, you're blocking my son. Like it's like, I don't. Nothing. I'm, you know, I'm, I'm comfortable. I'm, I'm a, I'm a man, you know. So, uh, yeah, definitely. And, and, and those are great, just, um, those are just great examples. And, uh, ones that people, you know, even if anecdotal, ones that people, I, I think anecdotes do serve a purpose, right? Because they at least show you that it's possible and that it can. That that it does exist. Everything doesn't have to be. I mean, I'm a big statistics guy. I'm a big, uh, you know, analytics guy, but at the same time I also was, you know, I also like to say like, yeah, but the things that you're saying aren't possible are possible, and I can, I can at least show you in a few instances where they happen, um, maybe you can call them fringe cases. But if they're able to do it, then that means, you know, a lot of us should, should be able to do it. You know, it's not something like where I'm telling you you should be able to go make a million dollars tomorrow. It's we're talking about internal skills. You're absolutely able to harness those for sure and learn those and

1:36:54 Ricardo Lopes: grow. And look, and look, if you, if you compare. The men that were famous throughout history are, I mean, they were distinct in some way and that we admire with the ones that we despise. I mean the ones that we despise, yeah, sure they were famous, but those are the ones. That tend to have the traits that the manosphere say you should have. I mean, because at the end of the day you're, if you're just like a psychopath because you, you want to dominate people and you want to step on people and you want to subjugate people and women and so on. I mean, you're going to be like Hitler, and do you see anyone apart from those loser neo-Nazis out there admiring, admiring that bastard?

1:37:45 Breeze Oliver: Yeah, and who wants to end up like that, right? Like there's always this like you can you talk about this admiration for these crazy people and it's like, look how they ended up. These people were, they ended it all, it was never a good ending. You never know, it was never. Yeah, it just, that's not the role model. Obviously, Hitler's super extreme case. You know that's, I mean, for sure, he was a great example of all this, but even just on a smaller scale, it's just like most of these guys do not end up happy because the actual things that humans really crave and the real things that humans want, these guys are steering you away from that. They're steering you away from really actual internal wants and needs. And that will make you bitter. And they're bitter, they're bitter. And who wants to, I mean, you, I get that people like to play victim and be victim, sure, but I promise you, happiness and self fulfillment, it's just being fulfilling and being fulfilled internally. It's just, it feels so much better. It feels so much better. Um, YOU know, and so, uh, these guys are, they preach bitterness, they preach fear, they preach hate, uh, fear mongering, and it's like Do you like, can you not see through this? Do you not see through these guys? They're not happy. They're not happy internally being that insecure. It's so much more, and I have my insecure moments, but it's so much more, it's so much more refreshing and it feels there's so much more freedom and saying, you know what, man, I have a little bit of anxiety today and not feeling bad for saying that, not feeling like I'm less than a man for saying like Yeah, I'm, I'm like today was a hard day, you know, I, I, you know, I'm, I'm like emotionally just exhausted, right? And it's like when you have confidence in that and you have people surrounding you that, you know, you've, you've, uh, you've kind of not, I don't want to say trained, but like they know you're not worried about because people will, will adapt to that. The confidence will go a long way, right? I always laugh about like, um, I used to watch this guy on YouTube and he would sneak into game, like big, um, uh, sports. Arenas and games and stuff by acting like he was supposed to be there. So he would like walk through the ticket booth with a ladder and act like he was a construction worker. He wouldn't, he would, and he was looked, because he looked so confident, nobody would question this guy, you know. And I, and I, and he would walk into like the, the biggest, coolest club and act like he was supposed to be there. He'd have a nice suit on and he'd just walk. And it was just the confidence speaking. It was just like, this guy is signaling that he's supposed to be here. And so everybody bought into it. And that's really how far confidence can go. And so if you, if you're confidently, uh, if you're confidently, um, emotionally intelligent, if you're confidently vulnerable, if you're confidently, you know, I'm not saying walk around and boohoo all day. That's not what I'm saying. But I'm just saying if you're confident in your feelings for the day, people will not only people will will respect it, but they'll actually start to adapt. Adapt to it because they're going to start to trust you. They're going to start to trust. They're like, Oh, you know what, like this guy's, he seems like he don't mind if I show a little bit of feelings. And that's, I think, a really healthy place to be. I think it's a really healthy place to be. I have friends that when they're going through something, they call me and tell me they're going through something. When they're going through something with their girl, when they're going through something with their kids, you know, I have a really, you know, they, they're not scared to show me their feelings. In their emotion and we will have a good man to man, heart to heart conversation and tears might shed. You know what I mean? And again, I'm not walking around boo-hooing and you know and any other day, I'm a man, you know, you can't fight, you can't beat me up, you know. So you can call me soft all you want, but you won't fight. You know, so it's, it's, it's not not to take the violent route, but it's just like, I will also stand my ground when it's, I protect those around me. The ones that are around me feel protected. And, and I say that again, not to gas myself, but to say that like these things as a leader, you can absolutely portray and uh you don't have to walk around like these guys say, you know, in, in, in, um, this fear and this bitterness and this hatred towards women. Um, THERE'S a, there's a much better way. There's a much better way. So.

1:41:46 Ricardo Lopes: Yeah, so look, should we wrap things up? I mean, I mean, it's just, it's just because it's almost 2 a.m. here in Portugal.

1:41:56 Breeze Oliver: I'm so sorry,

1:41:57 Ricardo Lopes: man. No, no, no, but yeah,

1:41:59 Breeze Oliver: he's, we, yeah, when he said 5:30, 5:30 for us, it's like 11 something for him. And I was like, oh dude, you should have. Flipped it. We could have did the night when I'd have let you do the day. So I feel bad, but yeah, we can absolutely call it, man, get you some rest.

1:42:15 Ricardo Lopes: No, look, look, it's, it's, it's, it's been great. It's been awesome. And if you're open to it, I mean, we might record another episode because, uh, absolutely,

1:42:26 Breeze Oliver: yeah, any, anytime I would love to. I could, I could, I could do this all day, you know,

1:42:33 Ricardo Lopes: so I, I mean, but. Yeah, just for people, I, I mean, I actually will have you as uh collaborators on YouTube when I release the video, but, but where, where, where, where else can people find you?

1:42:48 Breeze Oliver: Yeah,

1:42:50 Kerushi Drake: um, so I am Kaushi Drake on all social media platforms.

1:42:54 Breeze Oliver: And I am Breeze Oliver, uh, same name on all social media platforms. We don't change them. And then, uh, and then obviously our podcast is Love for Debate. We're on all those social media platforms. We drop 2 episodes a week, um, on different subjects. We basically, it's, it's fun. We just read stories of couples' arguments or debates or issues. We read a real life story and then we talk about it. We debate it and sometimes we agree, sometimes. We disagree, but we hash it out and we try to find some common ground because what we don't want is couples just saying, Oh, the hell with that, or the hell with women or the hell with men. We want you to find some there because these are normal human things that we all go through and there's a way to find compromise in all of these stories that we read, no matter how crazy they are, right? So that's why we started it, but love up for debate on all platforms and um we really, really appreciate you having us. This has been A lot of fun. I love the conversation.

1:43:42 Kerushi Drake: I loved it so much. I know I didn't talk too much, but, uh, you know, have their time.

1:43:51 Ricardo Lopes: Yeah, and next time I will come up with some more girly topics, and you will talk more than us.

1:44:01 Kerushi Drake: I appreciate that so much.

1:44:04 Ricardo Lopes: Hi guys, thank you for watching this interview until the end. If you liked it, please share it, leave a like and hit the subscription button. The show is brought to you by Enlights Learning and Development done differently. Check their website at enlights.com and also please consider supporting the show on Patreon or PayPal. I would also like to give a huge thank you to my main patrons and PayPal supporters, Perergo Larsson, Jerry Mulleran, Frederick Sundo, Bernard Seyaz Olaf, Alex, Adam Cassel, Matthew Whittingbird, Arnaud Wolff, Tim Hollis, Eric Elena, John Connors, Philip Forrest Connolly. Then Dmitri Robert Windegeru Inasi Zu Mark Nevs, Colin Holbrookfield, Governor, Michel Stormir, Samuel Andrea, Francis Forti Agnun, Svergoo, and Hal Herzognon, Michel Jonathan Labrarinth, John Yardston, and Samuel Curric Hines, Mark Smith, John Ware, Tom Hammel, Sardusran, David Sloan Wilson, Yasilla Dezaraujo Romain Roach, Diego Londono Correa. Yannik Punteran Ruzmani, Charlotte Blis Nicole Barbaro, Adam Hunt, Pavlostazevski, Alekbaka, Madison, Gary G. Alman, Semov, Zal Adrian Yei Poltontin, John Barboza, Julian Price, Edward Hall, Edin Bronner, Douglas Fry, Franco Bartolatti, Gabriel Pan Scortez or Suliliski, Scott Zachary Fish, Tim Duffy, Sony Smith, and Wisman. Daniel Friedman, William Buckner, Paul Georg Jarno, Luke Lovai, Georgios Theophanous, Chris Williamson, Peter Wolozin, David Williams, Di Acosta, Anton Ericsson, Charles Murray, Alex Shaw, Marie Martinez, Coralli Chevalier, Bangalore atheists, Larry D. Lee Junior. Old Eringbon. Esterri, Michael Bailey, then Spurber, Robert Grassy, Zigoren, Jeff McMahon, Jake Zul, Barnabas Raddix, Mark Kempel, Thomas Dovner, Luke Neeson, Chris Story, Kimberly Johnson, Benjamin Galbert, Jessica Nowicki, Linda Brendan, Nicholas Carlson, Ismael Bensleyman. George Ekoriati, Valentine Steinmann, Per Crawley, Kate Van Goler, Alexander Obert, Liam Dunaway, BR, Massoud Ali Mohammadi, Perpendicular, Janasertner, Ursula Guinov, Gregory Hastings, David Pinsov, Sean Nelson, Mike Levin, and Jos Necht. A special thanks to my producers Iar Webb, Jim Frank Lucas Stink, Tom Vanneden, Bernardine Curtis Dixon, Benedict Mueller, Thomas Trumbull, Catherine and Patrick Tobin, John Carlomon Negro, Al Nick Cortiz and Nick Golden, and to my executive producers, Matthew Lavender, Sergio Quadrian, Bogdan Kanis, and Rosie. Thank you for all.